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How the Valley treats experienced people

rachelbythebay.com

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Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#341

Post by closeparen »

joshuamorton wrote: post #322
closeparen wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it would be irresponsible to take advantage of any of that, because one needs every last dollar saved towards housing.

Not really. 200k is a down payment on a million dollar home. Double that is a 2 million dollar home, which will let you buy in most places. Thats achievable in 5 years for someone who is working towards that goal specifically, less if you have a partner who also works. Anecdotally, I know two couples (out of not many total) that purchased within 2 years of moving to the bay. One had some savings, and that plus the fi…

Sure, dual tech income families are doing fine. But with gender ratios as they are, not many of those can exist.

Remember that, as you save, housing appreciates. I've run the numbers; the lines only intersect at all for more conservative % increases, between 8 and 12 years out.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#342

Post by dominotw »

rayiner wrote: post #280
dominotw wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> requiring employers to provide say parental leave You pivoted into govt laws on employers. That is not what we are discussing here though, I was referring to "values" that employers come up with voluntarily. I don't have any issues with clearly laid out govt policies. > Setting working hours that can accommodate having kids is another reasonable thing I don't disagree with this as long as everyone can use this flex…

By "requiring" I mean in terms of social expectations, not government laws. Many policies, e.g. lunch breaks, are "required" by social norms, not law. (Only a minority of states require lunch breaks; bathroom breaks are not required for the most part either: https://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnewsroom/labor-employment/b/... ) E.g. Most tech companies offer far more than the minimum FMLA required leave. That reflects "'v…

> That's also based on social expectations--a tech company that only offered the legally required minimum leave would get a lot of bad publicity for violating social norms, even though it would be legal to do so.

This has nothing to do with social expectations. Why would society have expectations just on tech companies. This is a result of skewed labor market due to our immigration policies. See what happens to those social expectations once we bump up h1b visas to a mil/yr( also you know "good for the economy" [1]).

1. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-03-12/cuts-t...

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#343

Post by CydeWeys »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #330
shmat wrote: post #68

Sometimes you don't make enough money to retire early from a combination of bad luck and poor financial decisions. In my career, I followed a pattern of going to a company just a bit too late to get the really low priced options. I've ended up with dozens of former co-workers who are multimillionaires. I had a family and was (in hindsight) too conservative about when I went to a company. I also was a "paper" milliona…

Me too, I went all in on Apple stock when the iPhone was announced, on margin I was so convinced. Sounds great right? Well broker sold everything during the 2008 meltdown and lost everything.

Sounds like the broker had to sell everything because you went below your required margin ratio. A typical margin ratio is 50%, and AAPL collapsed by more than 50% during the 2008 meltdown, so it sounds like you got margin called.

If that is indeed what happened then that's on you for buying on margin (which is inherently riskier), and no fault of the broker. If that's not what happened, and the broker executed trades without instructions from you, I hope you got them fired at minimum.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#345

Post by joshuamorton »

grogenaut wrote: post #326
joshuamorton wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few people in the South are making 6 figs out of college, even fewer are able to save six figures a year out of college. People in the bay can do that. And that assumes you want a 5 bedroom house, I have zero interest in that right now. Too much space to take care of. Why would I do that? And why would I go somewhere with fewer things to do. I attend social events 2-3 times a week. I've checked elsewhere, that w…

What social events do you enjoy that you don’t classify as hobbies? Eg what social events does sv have that Atlanta doesn’t? Are you counting tech as all encompassing lifestyle?

They are hobbies, my point is just that currently my hobbies (social dance, among others) have a large enough presence that I could literally attend a different social partner dance event every night of the week while sticking to blues and swing. I'd be double booked most nights. Now I don't do that because they're spread all over the bay (SF, Oakland, mid peninsula and South Bay, hell there's even one in Sacramento), but there are enough close to me that I can do 2-3 a week no issue.

In Atlanta theres a couple things a month. Anywhere super rural that isn't a college town, I'd be lucky to find dance partners my age.

I'd maybe pick up other hobbies again (I used to play magic the gathering but stopped in college, FNM is in a lot of places), but it's not the same.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#346

Post by rabidrat »

humanrebar wrote: post #98
user5994461 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you recommend to handle that? I find it difficult to hire senior developers for junior positions with the salary that goes with it. The biggest obstacle to middle age workers who are shifting career is to be unable or unwilling to take the paycut and downsides that come with a fresh start.

> I find it difficult to hire senior developers for junior positions with the salary that goes with it. Make the offer. If they turn it down, let them know they can change their minds later. I always tell engineers looking for jobs that saying "no" is the employer's job. It goes the other way too. Offer the engineer the associate engineer job (or whatever the title is). Let them counteroffer or decide it's a bad fit.

Then the risk is that they take the job, but only for 6-12 months, and then leave just when they're starting to become productive with the new tech and your environment.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#347

Post by dnautics »

rayiner wrote: post #304
dnautics wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you don't understand the math here. If you are in your 20s, single, and making six figures, you can rent an apartment with three other people in the bay and pay like 1-1.5k in rent and it's quite nice because you have so much extra capital to spend on top of saving. And there are things to spend it on here. Heck many in their thirties do this.

> you can rent an apartment with three other people in the bay and pay like 1-1.5k in rent Working a 60 hour/week professional job to live like a 1890s garment factory worker sounds... unappealing.

In your 20s? Who cares. Living with others can be fun. And those 1.5k in rent places are quite nice, they're just not spacious.

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#348

Post by dnautics »

mbrumlow wrote: post #246
dnautics wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you don't understand the math here. If you are in your 20s, single, and making six figures, you can rent an apartment with three other people in the bay and pay like 1-1.5k in rent and it's quite nice because you have so much extra capital to spend on top of saving. And there are things to spend it on here. Heck many in their thirties do this.

Meanwhile in the south you can make those same six figures and have a 5 bedroom house with a mortgage of 1.5k Or live in a nice area for 800 a month. Or live in a shit area for 400. SV math does not work out. You are taxed to much. Pay to high rent and have the pleasure of needing a shit map to walk in your city. I keep seeing this same argument about getting to pay 1.5k to live with a bunch of other people to save s…

and what would you do with all of that space? In the bay, I am living a bit far out (25 minutes) and tradeoff for a bit more space - but I'm also going out to social events 3-4 times a week. I would not be doing that anywhere else, heck when I was living in DC I only managed 1-2 events a week unless i tried really hard.

Some people prefer saving and looking for other forms of stimulus other than the acquisition of space. For those of us, the fear of living "some place in the south" amounts to:

"The cells just say, 'that's it', and you, the unwary victim of cellular ennui, are quite literally bored to death."

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#349

Post by humanrebar »

rabidrat wrote: post #346
humanrebar wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it difficult to hire senior developers for junior positions with the salary that goes with it. Make the offer. If they turn it down, let them know they can change their minds later. I always tell engineers looking for jobs that saying "no" is the employer's job. It goes the other way too. Offer the engineer the associate engineer job (or whatever the title is). Let them counteroffer or decide it's a bad fit.

Then the risk is that they take the job, but only for 6-12 months, and then leave just when they're starting to become productive with the new tech and your environment.

Presumably they would ramp up their pay and responsibilities according to their development.

If they're only worth introductory pay and responsibilities 12 months in, let them go take a pay raise elsewhere.

The attitude that pay only goes up incrementally year to year is fairly infounded. The curve should be steeper six months to three years in, depending on you industry and stack.

Organizations should also optimize their tech for onboarding efficiency. I rarely see that enter the discussion other than broadly: "It's easier to find JS developers."

Re: How the Valley treats experienced people

#350

Post by dnautics »

joshuamorton wrote: post #345
grogenaut wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What social events do you enjoy that you don’t classify as hobbies? Eg what social events does sv have that Atlanta doesn’t? Are you counting tech as all encompassing lifestyle?

They are hobbies, my point is just that currently my hobbies (social dance, among others) have a large enough presence that I could literally attend a different social partner dance event every night of the week while sticking to blues and swing. I'd be double booked most nights. Now I don't do that because they're spread all over the bay (SF, Oakland, mid peninsula and South Bay, hell there's even one in Sacramento)…

oh come on in atlanta there's a fun weekly swing dance in a creepy cabin in the woods. But true, it's nothing like the bay area.
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