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Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

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Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#361

Post by kakarot »

tomohawk wrote: post #360
kakarot wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in America, most teachers are expected to take home work and spend a large portion of time outside of the strict 6-8 school day doing lesson planning, grading, etc. Their wages are quickly approaching what you would expect at a fry cook position yet Wendy's doesn't give you four hours of extra homework a night. We are headed for a giant education crisis because we overwork and underpay under-qualified teache…

All of the most successful teachers I had placed tight boundaries on when they worked. They were organized, fast, and efficient. One history teacher I had only ever gave essay tests. He would have them all graded by 4pm. As one class was taking the exam, he would grade the previous class's essays. He had been a colonel in the army, and so had learned how to be ruthlessly efficient. One of the best teachers I had. Sim…

> All of the most successful teachers I had placed tight boundaries on when they worked. They were organized, fast, and efficient.

You're describing efficient people. Unfortunately we do not properly train our teachers because we do not want to properly pay them.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#362

Post by alexhutcheson »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #311
zanny wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might have been true 20 years ago when software development meant everything from a fundamental understanding of hardware (including how pixels are laid out, how to manage gamma, etc for the front end) to knowing a lot of theory (because you had to implement your collections in house, manage the code base by hand, etc) but nowadays I'm pretty sure at least half of everyone could be pointed at a web framework and…

Anyone can build an app, just as anyone can build a house. But if you want a roof that won’t rot for 20 years, you need to pay someone who knows how to build a proper house. By the same token, if you want an app that will still be maintainable in 5 years, you need a professional. An amateur can build most requirements, but the architecture will seize up if it’s just layers of hacks. It’s sort of an interesting situat…

Eh, I haven’t seen any evidence that experienced professionals can build a website that will last for 5 years either. Business requirements inevitably requires hacks and kludges, and abstraction layers implemented to deal with the problems of today become tomorrow’s layer that everyone wants to rewrite or refactor.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#363

Post by falcolas »

MisterTea wrote: post #171
ineedasername wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I get that's more work, and sounds like a hassle. So this isn't a criticism of your mom. But on the A- and extra credit issue, I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes. I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. To do otherwise seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-leve…

I agree with the stance that the +/- nomenclature should be taken outback and shot. It's that bad. A+ Student has demonstrated that they have exceeded a firm grasp of the subject. (How do you measure to 11 on a scale of 1-10?) A Student has demonstrated that they have a firm grasp of the subject. (makes sense, this means they know their stuff.) A- Student kinda has a firm grasp of the subject. (WTF?) Now apply that s…

It’s more that the A+- system is supposed to help identify a student on the edge. “You have a B+, which means that with a bit more effort, you could be an A” in comparison to “With a B-, you’re at risk of getting a C”. It also helps create more granular buckets out of a percentage scale, which most teachers seem use on grades behind the scenes.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#364

Post by mythrwy »

caseysoftware wrote: post #186
MarkMc wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait - so teachers in Massachusetts are not protected from lawsuits by their union or the schools? That's messed up

Serious question.. if the union isn't defending the teachers from bs lawsuits for legitimately doing their jobs, what is it doing?

Maybe it's too busy defending teachers from not doing their jobs and doesn't have time to defend teachers doing their jobs?

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#365

Post by threatofrain »

lachm wrote: post #148
bjourne wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That complaint doesn't make any sense. I can understand teachers complaining about kids disturbing their lessons, are unruly and threaten them with violence and so on. I can not understand teachers complaining about kids being extra ambitious and doing what they can to get the highest grades! I'll get downvoted for this, but if your moms worst problem is overachievers and parents caring about their children's educati…

Caring about education and caring about grades can be very very distinct.

As distinct as a chicken is from an egg, since grades lead to tracking.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#366

Post by atombender »

grecy wrote: post #335
atombender wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a great life-work balance, but it also sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers. My girlfriend teaches art to kids aged 8-14 at an urban public school, and she has zero time during the day for lesson planning, grading, seating plans, hanging up artwork, dealing with parents, etc. On most days she has to stay behind for several hours, and she often works throughout the w…

> sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers Well sure, he lives in Australia which has much, much better working conditions than the USA. It sounds like your girlfriend is being taken advantage of and working in a situation that is not to her benefit. In which case she needs to start looking for a new job!

I wouldn't say she's being taken advantage of. This is a city school in a depressed area, everyone is overwhelmed (she has several hundred students across her classes), and working with near-zero budgets.

There just isn't work available within a reasonable commute distance. She'd have to move if she wanted better conditions.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#367

Post by TheCoelacanth »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #267
tranced wrote: post #68

Haha, I just finished quitting my job teaching high school computer science today. I went from private tutoring CS to teaching in an afterschool program to this because I really enjoyed helping students break through conceptual blocks and mental ones. The work is emotionally exhausting but satisfying. Only recently have I wondered whether or not this was the right thing to do instead of going to industry(maybe it's b…

How do you risk your 401k? Unlike a pension, they can’t take it away from you.

Unvested employer contributions can be taken back.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#369

Post by closeparen »

shados wrote: post #76
throwaway98121 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should treat teachers better and pay them more. I agree we should value other professions too. That being said, I’m not following how attitudes in software engineering are related to the topic of this post. The freebies, on call outrage, etc is inherent to the tech industry with venture capitalist money or otherwise insane net profits... the longer term sustainability is questionable, but fresh college gra…

> That being said, I’m not following how attitudes in software engineering are related to the topic of this post. Sorry, I probably made my point poorly. It wasn't about attitude in software engineering. It was how insanely overvalued the field is, with a completely out of wack investment to reward ratio. Few to no other fields come even close, and its siphoning people from all other fields as well as creating unreas…

The “out of whack investment to reward ratio” is the fundamental mechanism of capitalism. It’s how we get enough of what we need, motivating self interested actors to provide it. We should be terrified if it isn’t happening somewhere, or else rejoice that every demand everywhere has already been met.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#370

Post by closeparen »

krapp wrote: post #125
pault wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I spend 40 hours a week making paper hats? Should I be entitled to a living wage?

Yes. If you choose to dedicate the bulk of your waking life to creating wealth for your employer, you should be compensated, at a minimum, well enough to feed, clothe and house yourself. or there should be something like UBI in place to allow employers to decouple the cost of keeping their employees alive from the cost of doing business.

The point of this example is that making paper hats creates little to no wealth. No one is going to compensate you handsomely for whatever random activity you choose - there has to be demand.
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