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Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

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Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#291

Post by CydeWeys »

steelframe wrote: post #285
CydeWeys wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the real world there are lots of drop-dead deadlines with no possibility of extension, usually imposed by external constraints.

In the real world you usually have the option of scaling back the scope of what you deliver to meet a deadline. If school were more representative of typical workplace conditions, you'd have the option of taking the first half of the midterm half-way through the semester and then taking the other half at the end, and then you could scale back the credits you get for the course from 3 to 1.5. Then you could do the sec…

Some specific examples of real deadlines I'm thinking of include: Giving a talk at a conference, submitting a bid for a contract, anything involving the court system (continuances are by no means guaranteed), a product launch with a firm already publicized date, or even worse, a product launch with a firm already publicized date and dozens of external partners (this is what I do at work).

In most of these cases you can't really scale back; you're either ready by the deadline or you're not, with catastrophic consequences for not being ready.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#292

Post by oh_sigh »

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

How does one get into a lawsuit over not assigning non-existent extra credit?

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#293

Post by colechristensen »

Good.

Unemployment is at a local minimum for the last couple of decades. Schools have to exist and teachers leaving raises demand for teachers so schools will actually have to compete, maybe a mass exodus will get the shitty school situation in the US fixed a little bit.

The most powerful form of protest is to leave for something better.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#294

Post by erikpukinskis »

joe_the_user wrote: post #86
allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

She told me of an email she received that said "X is trying to get into Princeton - an A- isn't going to get her in. What extra credit can she do to make this an A?" That's a horrible thing to say ... except I could even say from bitter experience that Princeton vs whatever-public-college is indeed a jump in *perceived( quality of education (there has been discussion of 150K vs 80K programming here and while they sho…

Princeton doesn’t provide any better instruction than a good state school.

What it provides is a circle of friends for your son or daughter that come from a different socioeconomic class. Which will allow your kids to operate smoothly in that class when they get out of college.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#295

Post by chupasaurus »

nilkn wrote: post #47
ineedasername wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I get that's more work, and sounds like a hassle. So this isn't a criticism of your mom. But on the A- and extra credit issue, I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes. I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. To do otherwise seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-leve…

It’s more work, and that’s exactly the problem. A teacher deserves to go home and enjoy their family and life outside of work. The only way to make this possible is to have students and parents understand that after a certain point the grade is simply final, so if you want a good grade it’s your responsibility to learn the material prior to exams or large projects or assignments being due. Everyone knows this; there…

I had a professor who taught algebra and pedagogy of math in local university. He has a nice scheme for grades (1 to 5 in Russia are F to A respectively): each lecture except the first starts with 3-5 minute test on previous topics, marks for working at practice hours and final exam. The grade was calculated as an average of avg(tests)+avg(practice)+exam, so you have to work throughout the whole semester or you won't have a chance for C or higher which is a minimum to pass.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#296

Post by [deleted] »

quickben wrote: post #193
trevyn wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems reasonable; grades are only partially a function of raw potential — effort plays a huge role as well. If a student is good enough to get an A-, I see no reason why demonstrating a certain amount of additional effort (extra credit) couldn’t get her to an A.

Whats the point of grading if there are repeats only for some?

[deleted]

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#297

Post by lsc »

CydeWeys wrote: post #208
ineedasername wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the real deal world, sure you do: ever not get something right the first try at work? Ever have to work longer hours because a project ran over the expected time? The real world doesn't have all of the arbitrary limits we see in the modern education system.

In the real world there are lots of drop-dead deadlines with no possibility of extension, usually imposed by external constraints.

>In the real world there are lots of drop-dead deadlines with no possibility of extension, usually imposed by external constraints.

What I find interesting is that people like to talk about how much harder the real world is than school... but that just isn't my experience.

At work? as far as I can tell, 70% means I get a pretty good raise. A really good raise if one of the things I got done was really impressive.

(that is one of the weird things about school for me; At work? if you really hit one out of the park, that matters. In school? you have to be within 10% of maximum all the time if you want to do well academically... and going above that maximum doesn't really help you.)

At work? If you aren't good at something, but are really good at other things? they give the things you are terrible at to other people. In school? they make you spend all your time on that thing you are terrible at.

(I mean, I totally understand that people have different experiences of school and of work, and I also understand that I have an unusually good experience of work... but all this "real world" stuff makes me laugh, just 'cause it is soo much easier for me to keep a job where I work with people that got good grades at good schools than it is for me to... get into good schools at all.)

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#298

Post by talltimtom »

blitmap wrote: post #230

I'm going to state a couple of strong opinions and hope it doesn't backfire on me: 1) Teachers should be paid more. 2) Teachers shouldn't be pressured to work so many hours off the clock (after school). 3) Teachers may continue to make their own lesson plans, but they should always have available lesson plans available to them. 4) School administrations should protect teachers from harassing parents. 5) The number of…

Number 9 and 1 are mutually exclusive. If you decrease requirements to increase availability of potential hires you decrease sallery.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#299

Post by chupasaurus »

MisterTea wrote: post #171
ineedasername wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I get that's more work, and sounds like a hassle. So this isn't a criticism of your mom. But on the A- and extra credit issue, I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes. I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. To do otherwise seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-leve…

I agree with the stance that the +/- nomenclature should be taken outback and shot. It's that bad. A+ Student has demonstrated that they have exceeded a firm grasp of the subject. (How do you measure to 11 on a scale of 1-10?) A Student has demonstrated that they have a firm grasp of the subject. (makes sense, this means they know their stuff.) A- Student kinda has a firm grasp of the subject. (WTF?) Now apply that s…

In Russia we use Excellent, Good, Satisfactory, Unsatisfactory and Weak from 1837. The worst grade wasn't used for some time scools but is coming back in common practice for missing work ([0]English Wiki doesn't have it but states that it's a 5-point grade system).

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grading_systems_by_country#Rus...

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#300

Post by sgustard »

Analemma_ wrote: post #232
ineedasername wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting stance, I haven't noticed that pattern but the composition of colleges varies greatly. In any case, I get around the whole "grade grubbing" issue by having my policy of "extra" work spelled out, also up front on the syllabus. No one gets anything extra just for bugging me about it. Basically it amounts to allowing homework assignments to be re-done (once). A single quiz grade can be replaced by…

It’s absolutely true. My wife teaches in a lower-income district where many families are African or Asian immigrants, and she loves it precisely because she gets no such bullshit from parents. When their kids misbehave or get poor grades, they apologize to her and promise the kid will do better next time. I hate to say it, but this “customer is always right”mentality is totally a problem specific to well-off whites.

True in other domains too. My brother's a doctor and prefers working in a lower-income neighborhood, where he never gets challenged by patients doing internet research. Of course the lack of knowledge of the "rules" that allow you to challenge authority is part of what keeps people economically disadvantaged.
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