Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#231

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:06 AM UTC

nilkn wrote: post #225

ineedasername wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "everyone knows this", not to the degree you indicate. Yes there is a balance to be made, but I and many of my colleagues believe the opportunity for learning shouldn't stop once an assignment has been graded. We believe that such grades are in fact the diagnostic we should use to determine which students need to be helped along, given the opportunity to learn the material better. You also say that a st…

Using intermediate grades to figure out which students to focus on is perfectly fine, and in fact I'm not sure it has much to do with what's being discussed. We're talking about a teacher being asked by a parent to create extra credit work so a student can jump from an A- to an A so they have better odds of getting into X/Y/Z. I don't think anyone is suggesting that teachers can't dynamically adjust their attention a…

In that case, I agree. I don't change final grades. By that point, students have had plenty of opportunity to approve upon the negative grades that feed the final one.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#232

Post by Analemma_ » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:08 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #210

spamizbad wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes My wife is a college psychology professor and is fairly strict with her grading scheme. She makes this clear on the first day of class and spells it out directly, in bold, on the syllabus. Her rationale is this: The likelihood of you asking for extra credit, or excuses, or various "grade grubbing" activities is largely influenced by your socioeconomic background…

That's an interesting stance, I haven't noticed that pattern but the composition of colleges varies greatly. In any case, I get around the whole "grade grubbing" issue by having my policy of "extra" work spelled out, also up front on the syllabus. No one gets anything extra just for bugging me about it. Basically it amounts to allowing homework assignments to be re-done (once). A single quiz grade can be replaced by…

It’s absolutely true. My wife teaches in a lower-income district where many families are African or Asian immigrants, and she loves it precisely because she gets no such bullshit from parents. When their kids misbehave or get poor grades, they apologize to her and promise the kid will do better next time. I hate to say it, but this “customer is always right”mentality is totally a problem specific to well-off whites.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#233

Post by HarryHirsch » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:13 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #94

ineedasername wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, I get that's more work, and sounds like a hassle. So this isn't a criticism of your mom. But on the A- and extra credit issue, I never understood the point of rigid grading schemes. I've taught at a college level, and I always give students the chance to improve their grades if they want to put in additional work. To do otherwise seems like saying "nope, even if you learn more and improve to the point of A-leve…

It’s obnoxious and unfair that squeaky wheels with pushy parents get do overs and normal kids get screwed. My dad travelled for work and mom was a nurse. There was no time for them to go in and harass teachers over my grades. If little Jimmy wants to get into Princeton, he should study.

If little Jimmy wants to get into Princeton, he should study

Donations and connections work much more reliably. Work gets you into les Grandes écoles in France, their model is different.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#234

Post by lackbeard » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:13 AM UTC

allcentury wrote: post #14

There's much more to this story. My mother, a high school calculus teacher for the last 22 years is so ready to retire. I didn't think my mom would ever retire, she spends countless hours coming up with unique lesson plans for the kids - they usually involve games, real world use cases and many ah-ha moments. She lives for those moments when a kid lights up when they understand the value of what their learning. Now t…

> The teachers union in Massachusetts made all the teachers sign liability waivers and arbitration waivers if a lawsuit happens.

What does this mean exactly?

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#235

Post by ams6110 » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:13 AM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #182

cowsandmilk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing here a different problem, which I know from talking to teachers also causes them stress. The people who make the software cause this problem, not the teachers themselves. They often don't have a way to avoid this and they aren't the ones deciding what software is used.

I assume the simple way to avoid it would be to not create an assignment in the system ready for grades to be entered until you actually have grades to enter. While a way to put an assignment in a state that it doesn't affect overall grades would be good and annoying if missing, it doesn't seem like something that's impossible to work around.

The system simply needs to differentiate between a grade "not yet posted" and a zero. I'm not sure why this observation has not been made by LMS software designers.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#236

Post by exolymph » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:14 AM UTC

skj wrote: post #195

derefr wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the contents are worth reading, they should be worth paying the asking price How about if the facts the article communicates are worth knowing, but their treatment in the article isn't worth the (digital) paper it was printed on? I can see your argument applying to editorials, but not-so-much to raw journalism.

Presumably an important part of journalism is research.

"Presumably" is doing a lot of work in your sentence. Having worked in journalism as a reporter... most of the articles out there are rushed and sloppy. Outlets with paywalls tend to be somewhat better, but not by a lot, and even then the staff inevitably turns out to be ideologically skewed.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#237

Post by arrty88 » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:16 AM UTC

They are also retiring at an alarming rate due to baby boomers. Wonder what % of teachers are baby boomers vs millennials / gen x / gen y

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#238

Post by labster » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:19 AM UTC

wallflower wrote: post #172

labster wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers should stop assigning tasks that necessitate parent participation, then. I was assigned to write a novella in sixth grade, for crying out loud. I like creative writing now, but I didn't back then, and the assignment sure didn't help.

It wasn't clear in the original comment but the paper that the high school student did was not supposed to be written by the parent or receive assistance from the parent in any form. The student was in high school!

I've never had assignments that were supposed to have parental assistance after preschool, yet many of them needed it to get a non-failing grade. Perhaps 1% of middle school kids can do a science fair project on their own with all the research tracking and results board and all. But still if you failed that, you failed the class. Utterly ridiculous. Kids that age should be exploring and apprenticing, not coming up with original research.

Not implying there aren't exceptional students, but they are exceptions. And for everyone else, we train them to be good factory workers for the disappearing industries of America. The one thing we all agree on is that the system is broken.

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#239

Post by ilitirit » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:19 AM UTC

As a "previously disadvantaged" South African whose mother was quite "high" in the education hierarchy - she set the final year national exams for high-school students one year in one subject and moderated examiners' marks for many years before and after that - I find this quite interesting.

Well, interesting is perhaps not the right word.

Disgusting.

Not at America, but toward my country's own education system.

My mother never cared about the money. In fact, she was offered huge salaries from so-called private schools (the wording/nomenclature is a story for another time). She never took it. Her main goal was always education for students who she felt were disenfranchised. Growing up, I'd often see her very sad about a bright student who got killed because of their surroundings or something else regarding their upbringing. But she always remained determined!

It breaks my heart these days to see that she is unhappy not because she is not able help the same students from the same backgrounds, but because she simply REFUSES to. She does not believe my country's education system is equipped to give them what they need. So, instead of taking a big salary from government (she is officially retired, btw) to teach "previously disadvantaged" students in government-endorsed programmes, she does it gratis when the students approach her personally.

I just realised why I never mentioned why she doesn't sign up for "government-sponsored" initiatives in terms of education. She - as do I - simply believes the standard they expect is not of the quality that should be given to the youth. So she will rather offer her standard "for free". I hope I don't have to explain why her method is not compatible with the paid-for alternative...

Re: Teachers Quit Jobs at Highest Rate on Record

#240

Post by kojeovo » Sat, Dec 29, 2018, 4:21 AM UTC

atombender wrote: post #203

grecy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My entire family are teachers (Mum, Dad, Sister, Brother), and have all had to deal with this to varying degrees, and have had it consume their lives at various times. My brother has the best work-life balance of any teacher I have ever met, and I think his approach is brilliant. Teaching is one of those careers where the expectation is on the teacher to endlessly do more and work harder, "For the kids", and if you k…

That sounds like a great life-work balance, but it also sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers. My girlfriend teaches art to kids aged 8-14 at an urban public school, and she has zero time during the day for lesson planning, grading, seating plans, hanging up artwork, dealing with parents, etc. On most days she has to stay behind for several hours, and she often works throughout the w…

What does the her schedule look like exactly? She's in the classroom teaching for 8 hours straight (minus lunch)?

This reads a lot like people who make excuses for not having time to exercise. I get that some positions will require you to put in work outside of work hours, but to say 'has zero time' seems like a bit of an excuse.