Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 247 posts

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#191

Post by Retric »

coldtea wrote: post #153
moate wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dictionary does a pretty good job. "Not Needed. Unnecessary." There's a pretty valid point to be made that you don't NEED to eat whale meat. Or Cow meat. Or any meat really. There are economically available options in most areas that would allow for a nutritionally balanced, vegetarian (possibly vegan) diet. This is specifically true about a developed nation like Japan. There's counterpoints to be made (not all farm…

> There's a pretty valid point to be made that you don't NEED to eat whale meat. Or Cow meat. Or any meat really. There are economically available options in most areas that would allow for a nutritionally balanced, vegetarian (possibly vegan) diet. With that sense of "need" you also don't need to be on HN, or on the internet. Heck, you don't need clothes if you live in a warm climate, and neither do you need 99% of…

People need food, and water so it is perfectly valid argument. Just not for slaughtering whales.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#192

Post by ngcc_hk »

cataphract wrote: post #168
moate wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dictionary does a pretty good job. "Not Needed. Unnecessary." There's a pretty valid point to be made that you don't NEED to eat whale meat. Or Cow meat. Or any meat really. There are economically available options in most areas that would allow for a nutritionally balanced, vegetarian (possibly vegan) diet. This is specifically true about a developed nation like Japan. There's counterpoints to be made (not all farm…

If by "need", you mean "need to survive", you could survive your entire life just by drinking human milk. By not eating plants, you'd be improving animal welfare even more, since agriculture kills many more animals than grazing-based animal husbandry (think all the pests that are eliminated: the rodents, insects, etc.)

I guess different between cow and whale is one is hunting and one is not. But then we have general fishing. Still muddy water.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#193

Post by ngcc_hk »

GolDDranks wrote: post #99
GolDDranks wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it _is_ a tradition. They don't actually eat a whole lot of whale meat like they used to do. There's more supply for whale meat than there is demand. The reason the whaling industry still exists is because it receives government support for being a "protected tradition".

Also, that is the real tragedy, and I hate the fact that the journalists often miss it: criticising people for killing sensing, feeling animals is hypocritical because we do the same thing for cattle, pigs, sheep and chicken. (Argument for whales being rare species are nonsensical because the minke whales that are being hunted aren't that rare.) What's horrible is killing sensing, feeling animals for no good reason.

To repeat one is raising them to be eaten. The other not. We do not eat elephant ...

Still fishing is a general hard field.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#194

Post by gfodor »

kenneth wrote: post #94

Denouncing the consumption of meat from certain species of animals (like whales or dogs or foir gras) while happily eating burgers and chickens and tuna is utter hypocrisy. We need to work with Japan and other whaling countries to set sustainable quotas. But the condescending moral judgements need to end. There's nothing inherently different about eating a whale and a hundred chicken. Personally I try very hard not t…

Is it hypocritical to know sugar is bad for you and eat candy sometimes? If so, does it mean you should just not try to avoid candy and eat as much as you please, since otherwise you'd be a hypocrite?

I think it's much better to have a reasoned through moral viewpoint, and accept that you will try and often fail to live up to that standard. Don't judge others, but judge yourself. We live in a culture which eats meat, and so if you deem it morally wrong to eat meat, even partially going against the grain of wider society is a difficult but just act even if you fail to do so all the time. This is true for any social norm which you consider unjust.

Just throwing your hands up and saying that you may as well just eat any once-living creature on equal terms since it means you won't be a hypocrite seems worse than deducing what ought to be the right way to behave and then try to build a framework to, perhaps only in-part, act towards that end. You may conclude that all creatures are the same, and continue your actions, but it sounds like you just consider the risk of being a hypocrite being an overriding concern.

For me, I personally have tried to scale back my meat eating over time, since I believe it to be unclear how much animals suffer in farming conditions and how much they should have moral standing. I assume the degree to which these are true is somewhat proportional to how close these animals are in mental and physical form to humans.

So, I no longer eat any mammals and increasingly try to prefer fish over birds. I began by cutting off pork (which I now can no longer stomach) and then beef. The net effect of this lifestyle may mean I am a "hypocrite", since I still eat animals and even occasionally just yield to the temptation to eat a burger, but it likely results in less net suffering, and may in the long term result in transitioning completely off of meat.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#195

Post by beat »

lprubin wrote: post #123
beat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, pigs and cattle are not sentient. Sentience is a complex question, but it mostly revolves around language and symbol-making/recognition. There's substantial evidence that whales actually have language. Pigs and cattle do not. (edit: I'm misusing the word "sentience" here. The problem is that it's not the right distinction. Cows/pigs are sentient , in that they can feel emotions. But they cannot reason . So it's n…

I believe the important distinction is not whether or not pigs and cows are sentient/language capable. Instead the real question is can they suffer. And if they can is it acceptable to cause that suffering simply for entertainment value? Ask yourself if dog fighting is acceptable. That is clearly animal suffering for purely entertainment purposes. If you live in a situation where you can survive and thrive without ea…

I've never understood this part of the vegetarian argument. Cows and pigs wouldn't exist if we didn't eat them. Is it better that they not exist at all, than that they should suffer briefly?

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#196

Post by nec4b »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23
javagram wrote: post #8

According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?

While I agree with the first part of your point, I've come to the opposite conclusion: slaughtering cows and pigs is morally indefensible. One aspect of this particular cognitive dissonance has always baffled me: you can, for example, see lots of pictures in reddit's "r/aww" subreddit of adorable pigs and cows, and in many cases the draw is the way these animals show behaviors analagous to humans, e.g. cuddling, or p…

Thankfully one needs no morals to eat meat. Only ideologues require morals for eating.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#198

Post by nec4b »

hkyeti wrote: post #171
platz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought there were a few required proteins that were very hard to supply in the body without an animal source

No, that myth was debunked decades ago. You can get all essential amino acids from a normal variety of plant foods, and the body combines them naturally. Or in case of some all essential amino acids are in the same plant.

Tell that to the doctors that have to save malnourished vegan children.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#199

Post by Nursie »

malvosenior wrote: post #27
beat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cows and pigs are farm-raised, not wild. There are plenty of restrictions around hunting any wild animals in most nations, related to sustainability. The question is, do we totally ban whaling in light of their endangered status, or do we allow limited whaling as long as it's sustainable? Another moral question is in play, though. Whales are widely believed to be sentient, as intelligent as human beings. If that is t…

> Whales are widely believed to be sentient, as intelligent as human beings. This is not true. They are considered smart animals but not as smart as humans (obviously). I think a pig is supposed to have similar levels of intelligence. For the record I oppose whaling, but I don't think making hyperbolic statements is going to help anything. EDIT: If anyone would like to post some information showing that whales are as…

> not as smart as humans (obviously)

Why obviously?

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#200

Post by Barrin92 »

coldtea wrote: post #150
moate wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and lots of people do.

And even more don't. Like 5 to 1 more...

many people mindlessly throw plastic into the ocean, do drugs, are obese or in some other way show callous disregard for their own health or the health of the ecosystem they live in, what's the point?
Post reply on HN