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Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#151

Post by coldtea »

hjek wrote: post #143
coldtea wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they don't just like it like animals like stuff. They like it as meat, but they also like the parts of their culture associated with it. The same way an American would like the turkey AND the thanksgiving dinner, and would like to continue having both, and not just because of turkey meat, but as a combo.

So would slavery similarly be more justifiable if it was also done not only because slave owners liked it but because it was part of American culture?

Yes. That's also part of how it was justified back in the day. Or do you think that those practicing it thought it wasn't justified as they were doing it?

The fact that people have now changed their minds on that particular matter doesn't mean that anything people haven't changed their minds but consider tradition is equally wrong.

Or that there's some law-of-nature-style "right and wrong" aside what a culture deems as such. For all our modern posturing, if we were merely born 200 years ago in the US, heck, not even the South, we would statistically be far more likely to be in favor than against the practice (and still be considered perfectly "modern" for those times).

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#152

Post by adrianN »

hjek wrote: post #147
adrianN wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could just pay fishermen to not fish, just like we pay farmers for fallow land.

How do you tell who is a fisherman if the fisherman does not catch fish?

How do you tell who is a farmer if the farmer doesn't farm?

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#153

Post by coldtea »

moate wrote: post #131
coldtea wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is to say what is "needless"?

Dictionary does a pretty good job. "Not Needed. Unnecessary." There's a pretty valid point to be made that you don't NEED to eat whale meat. Or Cow meat. Or any meat really. There are economically available options in most areas that would allow for a nutritionally balanced, vegetarian (possibly vegan) diet. This is specifically true about a developed nation like Japan. There's counterpoints to be made (not all farm…

>There's a pretty valid point to be made that you don't NEED to eat whale meat. Or Cow meat. Or any meat really. There are economically available options in most areas that would allow for a nutritionally balanced, vegetarian (possibly vegan) diet.

With that sense of "need" you also don't need to be on HN, or on the internet. Heck, you don't need clothes if you live in a warm climate, and neither do you need 99% of your processions (and surely not in that quality).

"Need" is not much of an argument.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#154

Post by lostlogin »

hjek wrote: post #147
adrianN wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could just pay fishermen to not fish, just like we pay farmers for fallow land.

How do you tell who is a fisherman if the fisherman does not catch fish?

Their tax return.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#155

Post by toasterlovin »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #23
javagram wrote: post #8

According to the article “ Pro-whaling nations expected the moratorium to be temporary, until consensus could be reached on sustainable catch quotas.” If this fishing is truly sustainable and doesn’t threaten the whales with extinction there shouldn’t be a problem. Why should whales get protection that pigs, cows, and other animals don’t?

While I agree with the first part of your point, I've come to the opposite conclusion: slaughtering cows and pigs is morally indefensible. One aspect of this particular cognitive dissonance has always baffled me: you can, for example, see lots of pictures in reddit's "r/aww" subreddit of adorable pigs and cows, and in many cases the draw is the way these animals show behaviors analagous to humans, e.g. cuddling, or p…

I think there's a pretty reasonable argument that 1) conditions for livestock are actually much better than those endured by animals in nature, and 2) living to eventually be slaughtered is better than never having lived at all.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#156

Post by benchaney »

adrianN wrote: post #152
hjek wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you tell who is a fisherman if the fisherman does not catch fish?

How do you tell who is a farmer if the farmer doesn't farm?

The farmer owns farmland that could be used but isn’t.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#157

Post by hjek »

coldtea wrote: post #149
hjek wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly (if the burger is made of animal flesh, that is; but fortunately there are many other ways of making burgers).

Yeah, just not real or tasty ones.

I'm cooking and eating burgers often, and they smell and taste quite real (as opposed to imaginary burgers made out of air).

Have you yourself tried a non-flesh burger, and did you genuinely find it bad? Was it from a shop or a cafe or was it homemade? Or do you have a dogmatic belief that there has to be real suffering and murder for a burger to be real?

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#158

Post by tree_of_item »

platz wrote: post #60
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a serious question? As one small example, the 500 million or so vegetarians in India seem to do just fine.

I thought there were a few required proteins that were very hard to supply in the body without an animal source

I thought the same. I get the sense people gloss over this in their promotion of vegetarianism/veganism

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#159

Post by spraak »

tomp wrote: post #130
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a serious question? As one small example, the 500 million or so vegetarians in India seem to do just fine.

Surely if killing animals is wrong, so is exploiting them for eggs and milk? So the only moral option (currently available, in the absence of lab-grown meat) is veganism, which is deadly (it's missing some B vitamin I think).

You aren't even sure which vitamin it is, but you're sure that veganism is deadly? It's B12, which is from bacteria in the soil and water, but because of water purification and washing vegetables, we don't get it so much naturally. So vegans take a B12 supplement. But even animals raised as food are also given B12 supplements, and it's often recommended for non-vegans to take a B12 supplement as well. You know what else is deadly? Atherosclerosis from eating animals.

Re: Japan to withdraw from the International Whaling Commission

#160

Post by hkyeti »

tomp wrote: post #130
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a serious question? As one small example, the 500 million or so vegetarians in India seem to do just fine.

Surely if killing animals is wrong, so is exploiting them for eggs and milk? So the only moral option (currently available, in the absence of lab-grown meat) is veganism, which is deadly (it's missing some B vitamin I think).

Yes exploiting animals for eggs and milk (and all the death that accompanies it) isn't moral when it's for pleasure and not for staying alive. No a plant based diet is not deadly, in fact vegans tend to live longer healthier lives. The longest lived population studied was essentially (over 95%) vegan.
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