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Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

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Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#231

Post by anticensor »

fxj wrote: post #64

robocalls are illegal in germany. They are called unerlaubte Telefonwerbung and one energy company got fined with 140.000 euros. https://www.bundesnetzagentur.de/DE/Sachgebiete/Telekommunik... FTA: After the E wie Einfach GmbH had found agencies for the advertising measures, obviously no more control took place. Therefore the E.ON daughter is occupied now with a fine of 140.000 euro. Because as a client of the call a…

> unerlaubte Telefonwerbung

"Illegal phone advertising" for those do not speak German.

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#232

Post by mrweasel »

btilly wrote: post #41

I actually would like a regulatory solution for this. Mandate a way for me to say whether incoming calls were spam. Require my phone company to pay me money every time I get spammed. Allow my phone company to, at their option, proactively block calls from specific upstreams and/or pass the charge to the specific upstreams. Now from those incentives, the fines will naturally follow the upstreams to the source of the s…

> I actually would like a regulatory solution for this.

That's actually the only way to go. Adding support for apps to screen your calls, block unknown number or some other feature that requires an action from the user only benefits those who understand the technology and know that it's available. It leaves those most susceptible to fraudulent calls as the only target for scammers.

People often forget that those with limited technological understanding, such as the elderly, may need society to step in an actually solve the problems, rather than plastering over them with even more tech.

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#233

Post by TomMarius »

abakker wrote: post #188
amluto wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer an economic solution. Currently, you can sue a robocaller under the TCPA, but good luck collecting. Make each carrier liable for judgments against robocallers routed through their network. So, if I sue John Doe for robocalling me and I can’t collect, and I’m a Verizon customer, the make Verizon liable for those damages. This should come with some limits, but they should be large (say 10% of nationwide annual…

i bet that instead, you'd just get a new contract in which verizon decided that it was only free to talk to other verizon numbers, and would require you to pay extra to call outside the network. Then, they'd ask you to provide a birth certificate, SSN, CC number, and pay via direct deposit to have an account. if you want to penalize rob dialers, don't penalize companies that are not robodialing, or push the burden of…

Eh. They do all of what you said in Europe and noone complains. Except it's not even free to call your own network.

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#235

Post by mrweasel »

huehehue wrote: post #189
philliphaydon wrote: post #181

We don't have this problem in Singapore. https://www.dnc.gov.sg/index.html We have this do not call list. Once added, calls, texts, etc, drop to like nothing. Infact I cannot remember the last time I had a call... I get the occasional text message but it's mostly shops telling me to use my store points before a certain date. A reminder.

We have one of those in the US, but most (99%) of the automated calls I receive are not from legitimate enterprises.

Also the US is a much larger target, it's 300 million people that are almost guaranteed to speak English. Targeting countries like Denmark, The Netherlands or other countries where you'd basically need hire native speaker it's financially viable (That's not to say that the problem doesn't exist in these countries, just at a much smaller scale).

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#236

Post by carlospwk »

redisman wrote: post #115
carlospwk wrote: post #8

I have no idea what a robocall is but I would LOVE a simple notification banner for when someone calls. I rarely get calls these days but when I do, it’s a major annoyance if I’m doing something on my phone. It’s time calls are relegated to the same level of urgency as WhatsApp messages and emails.

I just gotta say it's funny that receiving a phone call on your phone is a major annoyance these days.

To me it’s more like a device which can also make calls with an app.

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#237

Post by carlospwk »

bradleyankrom wrote: post #15
carlospwk wrote: post #8

I have no idea what a robocall is but I would LOVE a simple notification banner for when someone calls. I rarely get calls these days but when I do, it’s a major annoyance if I’m doing something on my phone. It’s time calls are relegated to the same level of urgency as WhatsApp messages and emails.

do you iive outside the U.S.?

I’m in Finland. I get about 2-3 telemarketing calls a month which I quickly end and add the number as a spam contact.

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#238

Post by philliphaydon »

mrweasel wrote: post #235
huehehue wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have one of those in the US, but most (99%) of the automated calls I receive are not from legitimate enterprises.

Also the US is a much larger target, it's 300 million people that are almost guaranteed to speak English. Targeting countries like Denmark, The Netherlands or other countries where you'd basically need hire native speaker it's financially viable (That's not to say that the problem doesn't exist in these countries, just at a much smaller scale).

Singapore speaks English as a first language.

Sounds like the problem is to do with not honoring the do not call list and no punishment for those who don't honor it. Here companies are fined if they call people who are on the list.

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#239

Post by notatcomputer68 »

awakeasleep wrote: post #14

"At the telelphony-infrastructure level, it’s a supremely difficult problem that lacks a short-term fix because the underlying protocol is hopelessly insecure." This is only partly true. Technologically the solution is difficult, but it's easy from the social side as carriers can blacklist the smaller carriers that allow this fraud to take place. The real problem is that everyone except the consumer benefits from thi…

>at this point these scam phone calls may be nearing the majority of the phone calls placed in the USA, so it's going to be a huge financial disruption to the carriers when they have to give up their game.

That's a shortsighted perspective. phone numbers will only survive if they solve the spam problem.

Many people don't pick up from unknown numbers anymore. It's just a matter of time before legitimate people stop trying to call as no one responds anyway.

Re: Apple needs to change iPhone’s call UI because robocalls are killing us

#240

Post by Tsubasachan »

amluto wrote: post #108
ac29 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There already is a proposed technological solution to this: https://transnexus.com/whitepapers/stir-and-shaken-overview/ The FCC has recently "demanded" US telecoms to implement this [0], but at this point I don't believe there is actually a regulatory requirement to do so. [0] https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354933A1.pdf

I prefer an economic solution. Currently, you can sue a robocaller under the TCPA, but good luck collecting. Make each carrier liable for judgments against robocallers routed through their network. So, if I sue John Doe for robocalling me and I can’t collect, and I’m a Verizon customer, the make Verizon liable for those damages. This should come with some limits, but they should be large (say 10% of nationwide annual…

Ofcourse this can be fixed. Other countries did it. The problem is that consumer protection is... lacking in the US and big business is God.
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