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China Cracks Down on Churches

nytimes.com

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Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#241

Post by samhain »

partiallypro wrote: post #114
StevePerkins wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...Christianity, which by some estimates is China’s fastest-growing religion, promotes Western values and ideals like human rights that conflict with the aims of China’s authoritarian government This is the part that confuses me. I'm not sure what Christianity intrinsically promotes (ask 12 Christians and I suspect you'll receive 13 conflicting opinions). But practically speaking , governments and ruling classes ha…

You have a grave misreading of the history of Christianity. It was used as a control device when it was centrally controlled and delivered (like all religions)...the invention of the printing press changed all of that with the Reformation. Once the knowledge was spread through the people and open to interpretations, the general direction of Christianity (despite all the faults of modern movements) has trended towards…

>equality and freedom

How do you know that there are not scriptures in the Bible that could support the opposite?

>Martin Luther and John Calvin

Didn't Martin Luther give rise to the thinking that ultimately resulted in WWII?

And the Calvinists that I personally know still hold to the ideas that women cannot wear pants and are not allowed to go to college.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#242

Post by dragonwriter »

StevePerkins wrote: post #92
tivert wrote: post #18

> ...Christianity, which by some estimates is China’s fastest-growing religion, promotes Western values and ideals like human rights that conflict with the aims of China’s authoritarian government and Mr. Xi’s embrace of traditional Chinese culture and Confucian teachings that emphasize obedience and order. > But the government’s heavy-handed efforts to obliterate several high-profile churches have been met with resi…

> ...Christianity, which by some estimates is China’s fastest-growing religion, promotes Western values and ideals like human rights that conflict with the aims of China’s authoritarian government This is the part that confuses me. I'm not sure what Christianity intrinsically promotes (ask 12 Christians and I suspect you'll receive 13 conflicting opinions). But practically speaking , governments and ruling classes ha…

> So why try to violently suppress it? That's never been an effective strategy. Just co-opt it, and make it promote whatever Chinese/Confucian values you want like everyone else does.

They also do that. The problem, from the regimes perspective, is that international Christianity (including and with assistance of domestic Christians already indoctrinated into the foreign varieties) keeps sabotaging their efforts to co-opt Christianity.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#243

Post by chillacy »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #235
chillacy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that’s true? China has cracked down on: democracy in the 80s, Falun Gong, Tibet, Islam, and now Christianity. None of the previous groups have “flourished” yet. Some have basically died, others had to go abroad to survive, none are mainstream in China l.

History is unpredictable, but Christianity has a long tradition of persecution, with even a lot of primary texts (Bible) supporting it, so it is an expected/welcomed experience. This can give the followers a lot of strength under persecution. Examples: 2 Timothy 3:12 - "Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted," John 15:18 - “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me befo…

That's pretty convincing, christianity has been around for a lot longer than the CCP, so by the Lindy effect we would expect it to outlive the CCP.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#244

Post by 77pt77 »

starbeast wrote: post #234
77pt77 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion For those not getting the reference,

I did not get the reference and reading through, this is something I know very little about. Thank you for providing a link.

The fact that I only became acquainted with this so late in life is a testament to how provincial my education (and most people's) is.

Re: China Cracks Down on Churches

#245

Post by 1123581321 »

samhain wrote: post #241
partiallypro wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a grave misreading of the history of Christianity. It was used as a control device when it was centrally controlled and delivered (like all religions)...the invention of the printing press changed all of that with the Reformation. Once the knowledge was spread through the people and open to interpretations, the general direction of Christianity (despite all the faults of modern movements) has trended towards…

>equality and freedom How do you know that there are not scriptures in the Bible that could support the opposite? >Martin Luther and John Calvin Didn't Martin Luther give rise to the thinking that ultimately resulted in WWII? And the Calvinists that I personally know still hold to the ideas that women cannot wear pants and are not allowed to go to college.

The answer to your second question is no, unless you believe that a unified Catholic Germany would have stayed out of or won the First World War. I believe you are referring to some quotes by Martin Luther that no Lutheran church propagated or even remembered for the most part. The portions of Luther’s writings that spread through Germany were his large and small catechisms, Smalcald articles, etc., that were contained in the Book of Concord compiled shortly after his death.

As for the Calvinists, I hope you know you associate with very unusual people. There are a lot of Calvinist-founded colleges.

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