Underground churches are stronger every time they are persecuted. Success, prosperity are much more dangerous for most of the christian churches in the western world.
China Cracks Down on Churches
141–150 of 245 posts
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#142I see that the growth of China is driving Americans nuts, and they are trying to manufacture all kinds of ridiculous reasons to hate the Chinese, and not disclose that their reason number one is envy. The situation of religion in China is much better nowadays than it was ever before. A few decades ago the Chinese government would incarcerate anyone who propagated religion in the country, and nowadays must religions can be practiced as long as they orderly register with the government. The fact that a big newspaper complains about this issue after many years of progress shows that they are trying to feed the ideas of religious bigots in America who claim persecution daily, while trying themselves to persecute the ideas that they don't agree with. I find this completely appalling.
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, Literally no one does this. Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. It has nothing to do with someone being a Christian else where in the world. The sentiment you are attempt…
> Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society ... except Hollywood, academia, Silicon Valley, Wall Street, K Street, much of the publishing industry, and the mainstream media. Fixed that for you. And Merry Christmas!
I’m not even religious but I recognize that Christian values basically underlie all of western culture, down to a belief in human rights and humanism itself.
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#144Underground churches are getting stronger every time they are persecuted.
Wealth and prosperity are much more dangerous for most of the christian churches in the western world.
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ...Christianity, which by some estimates is China’s fastest-growing religion, promotes Western values and ideals like human rights that conflict with the aims of China’s authoritarian government This is the part that confuses me. I'm not sure what Christianity intrinsically promotes (ask 12 Christians and I suspect you'll receive 13 conflicting opinions). But practically speaking , governments and ruling classes ha…
I think you’re making the mistake of equating Christianity and Catholicism. They have the same roots but all of the things you’re assigning to Christianity is really the machinations of ‘The Church’ weilding Christians beliefs as a cudgel for the aspirations of ruling bodies. There is definitely a fine line between the two that is often blurred, but Christianity at its core is about people who are oppressed finding f…
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Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#146Does China have a state religion? Seems like the government clamps down on all of the major religions, is it a secular culture?
> Does China have a state religion? Seems like the government clamps down on all of the major religions, is it a secular culture?
A somewhat tongue in cheek take is: China's state religion is Communism and it's state Church is the Communist Party of China. All of its leaders, officials, and people are required to study Communism and pay lip service to it, whether the believe it or not. However, no one there can take Communism too seriously, because the party's real religion is that of centralized power and submission to it: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/11/world/asia/china-student-...
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is the church indulging in criticism? Who are they? What right do they have to do that? How do they know that the officials are corrupt? How do you know that is the only thing the church did, if they even did that? How do YOU know for a fact that the official was corrupt? Too many questions & you seem to be naive enough to take everything at face value. Again, why does the church interfere in such things? Isn't t…
Completely agree. The political behavior of the Christian church is well known across history, and entails basically getting the best benefits of the government for itself and persecution or suppression for other beliefs. People in this thread trying to support the political activity of Christians in China seem that have no historical perspective of what this religion did and does up to this day to advance its agenda…
I do not understand why your position, that the Christian church gets the best benefits of government for itself, is in agreement with the position above, that the church should not criticize the government.
I would understand your position more if you objected to the Christian churches operating with official approval of the government. In that case it would be very obvious how the church is gaining government power/favors for itself. But how is this church doing so?
Even if your answer is that this behavior is in the DNA of Christianity and will come out at some point, are not the state-sanctioned churches a bigger threat (and, arguably, the unsanctioned churches are helping for now to question the legitimacy of the sanctioned ones)?
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
You have significantly misunderstood the context of the conversation. No one has said that Christians aren't persecuted around the world. No one has even implied this was the case. Because people don't hold such opinions. He is implying that people hold these opinions. I am asking for some kind of substantial material validating the frequency of such opinions. It helps to respond to the actual conversation instead of…
I am asking for some kind of substantial material validating the frequency of such opinions. What are the odds that I could go to ten different blogs from ten different Joe's from across the internet saying how bad it is for Christians in the world, come back here, link them, that you'll backpedal more to say that the sources provided aren't authoritative enough?
The problem seems to be conflating the notion that Christians in the US/Western nations are persecuted with the capacity for any Christian or Christian group to be persecuted elsewhere.
Because it's a common response to things like the gay wedding cake and "happy holidays," etc. It's not surprising those things evoke such a dismissal.
But such a dismissal is not all inclusive. Because we don't see, say, gay marriage as a persecution of Christianity doesn't mean we believe Christians are intrinsically incapable of being persecuted.
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#149The paradox is that the more the government cracks down on Christianity, the more it will likely flourish.
Why do you think that’s true? China has cracked down on: democracy in the 80s, Falun Gong, Tibet, Islam, and now Christianity. None of the previous groups have “flourished” yet. Some have basically died, others had to go abroad to survive, none are mainstream in China l.
Re: China Cracks Down on Churches
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apologism. Having a party member approve the sermon before preaching is oppression.
> and even the strings attached to the registration requirements (gov't officials part of the church) are things to criticize. Many proponents of any of their religions find registration to be an unfavorable condition. whats "apologism" about what I wrote?
I apologize. I misunderstood your point...perhaps something about the framing misled me and made me read less carefully.