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Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

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Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#121

Post by chapium »

kolikotime wrote: post #63

West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan…

Not sure about the echo chamber.. comment section seemed to be brigaded as soon as the article was posted.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#122

Post by sah2ed »

afpx wrote: post #96
kolikotime wrote: post #63

West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan…

Having worked with the World Bank in the past, I think that’s a very uninformed and biased view. They have been very effective in reducing poverty and improving infrastructure in Africa. I recommend that you read facts about what they do before reading random opinions online (from brand new accounts, especially). Also, I know dang warns us about pointing out potential propaganda, but this seems like this post is a go…

> They have been very effective in reducing poverty and improving infrastructure in Africa.

I'm sure Joe Stiglitz, a Nobel prize winner in Economics, would disagree. In fact, he clearly articulated why in his book: Globalization and Its Discontents.

"[It] is a book published in 2002 by the 2001 Nobel laureate Joseph E. Stiglitz. The book draws on Stiglitz's personal experience as chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under Bill Clinton from 1993 and chief economist at the World Bank from 1997."

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#123

Post by dovvdkc »

realusername wrote: post #100
kolikotime wrote: post #63

West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan…

> France in particular still operates a monetary zone that operates in 14 African countries in its former colonial obit The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA, some of them did and came back, having a stable currency you can trust on in the region is invaluable so they keep it on purpose. Especially that they can trade with their neighbours much more easily.

Free if the leader escapes the assasination attempt from the French special forces.

The Convertible franc was clearly an attempt from France to dilute the effects of its inflationary spending by spreading it over its former colonies.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#124

Post by realusername »

kolikotime wrote: post #114
realusername wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> France in particular still operates a monetary zone that operates in 14 African countries in its former colonial obit The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA, some of them did and came back, having a stable currency you can trust on in the region is invaluable so they keep it on purpose. Especially that they can trade with their neighbours much more easily.

While we can debate the relative merits and demerits of the CFA, it is still quite very strange and quite frankly colonial that the arrangement continues.And there have been coups in the past in the West African subregion which call into doubt this argument that Francophone African states have much sovereignty to change the situation. Furthermore, regardless of the relative merits and demerits of the monetary zone, i…

> While we can debate the relative merits and demerits of the CFA, it is still quite very strange and quite frankly colonial that the arrangement continues.

It continues because it's becoming an African euro-zone, having the same currency is invaluable. Especially that the African currencies don't have a reputation for stability. It's not a coincidence Mali & Guinea left and then came back in.

> Lastly, one just has to compare the state of Francophone African states towards most of the Anglo states, they are on by definition normally poorer and more fragile

I don't really agree with that, you have counter example in both cases, on my case I could point Cote d'Ivoire where the Bank of Africa is located and on the other Anglo side you have Uganda which isn't exactly an example of a rich country, the Franc CFA definitely helped for that.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#125

Post by learc83 »

StavrosK wrote: post #109
learc83 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely against using prison labor for profit, and there are inequalities in the US system...but prisoners in the US have had due process. Despite our problems, the protections for the accused in the US are among the best in the world. To pretend that there isn't an enormous difference between labor camps in China and prison labor in the US is absolutely absurd.

Your argument is that, because they had a fair trial and were found guilty, it is ethical to force them to work without compensation? > Over the years, the courts have held that inmates may be required to work and are not protected by the constitutional prohibition against involuntary servitude. They have also consistently held that inmates have no constitutional right to compensation and that inmates are paid by the…

>Your argument is that, because they had a fair trial and were found guilty, it is ethical to force them to work without compensation?

Yes to some extent. I think forcing prisoners to cook their own meals, clean up after themselves etc... is fine. I draw the line at contracting out prisoners for money, or selling products that prisoners make--not because I think requiring work as a part of fairly meted punishment is inherently wrong, but because I believe it creates perverse incentives.

My primary argument is that requiring work as a part of punishment for an offense for which they were convicted at a fair trial is not remotely comparable to forcing hundreds of thousands of unconvicted political prisoners into labor camps.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#126

Post by realusername »

noch wrote: post #118
realusername wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> France in particular still operates a monetary zone that operates in 14 African countries in its former colonial obit The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA, some of them did and came back, having a stable currency you can trust on in the region is invaluable so they keep it on purpose. Especially that they can trade with their neighbours much more easily.

> The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA [...] Claiming these former colonies are "free" is perhaps a deep misunderstanding of what "free" means. Consider: https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/france-still-robbing-it...

Pretty much every point in this article is demonstrably false and unsourced, it would take me a good 30min to debunk all of these (I might do it if I have time) but please don't trust anything written in this blog.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#127

Post by mschuster91 »

buboard wrote: post #111
raverbashing wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think when compared with Chinese imperialism, people will miss the US

I think people are overstating the chinese capacity to run a world-class imperialist project. China still has a long way to go to making their own country functional before they can do this kind of outreach

> China still has a long way to go to making their own country functional before they can do this kind of outreach

China has massive amounts of US dollars (and lower, but still decent, amounts of Euros) which are useless at home but can move literal mountains in Africa.

Basically China can act like a VC fund in Africa: spend shitloads of money and pray that 1 of 100 projects is gonna be a unicorn... the game is to not do it like Europe dumping their used clothing and overproduced food over Africa, but to provide infrastructure so that the billions of people in Africa actually have the means to buy... yep, Chinese products.

The infrastructure is a loss leader, but ya gotta get the product into the continent somehow. Europe and the US won't be able to profit from the infra, we don't export anything of value except cars and software since all our manufacturing and industry was shuttered and off-shored to... China.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#128

Post by simion314 »

AaronFriel wrote: post #91
raprp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 months ago the target was Russia. Basically blamed for everything. Now it's China. Funny that the China bashing articles started to appear more frequently at the same time the US government switched aim from Russia to China too. Coincidence?

Yes, and/or confirmation bias. There have been articles on the Chinese Road and Belt Initiative and their long-term geopolitical goals for a few years now. That initiative has only became more newsworthy and pressing as the world's largest economy has turned inward.

The OP used the word frequency, I also noticed that lately we get at least 2 anti China articles on top page, maybe nothing changed on publishing side but the HN voting changed making this anti China articles stick to the top or on the first page a lot.

I don't care enough about it to investigate the numbers of articles on HN with China in title so is all something I noticed and I am not from US (so I have no horse in the trade war)

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#129

Post by dragandj »

moltar wrote: post #40
_mxys wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Montenegro's ONLY highway. They went into it despite experts knowing full well that the country couldn't afford one. "Doubts about the highway surfaced after two feasibility studies, conducted in 2006 and 2012, showed it was not economically viable." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-silkroad-europe-mon...

I can’t imagine building a highway on that terrain. I drove thru a lot of Montenegro and I haven’t seen any flatlands.

The country's name is literally "Black Mountain". There are tiny flatlands around the capital city and that's all.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#130

Post by dm3730 »

raverbashing wrote: post #103
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #5

So this is Economic Hitmen 2.0. China watched and learned from what the US did in South America.

I think when compared with Chinese imperialism, people will miss the US

> I think when compared with Chinese imperialism, people will miss the US

Could you clarify which people you are thinking of and your specific meaning of what they would miss?

I'm thinking about those historical track record. I'm thinking of those millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians whose lives were ended. I wonder about the millions more whose futures were ruined. I'm thinking about those millions of Iranians trapped by blowback to the Mossadegh coup. Nicaraguans? Guatemala. Honduras. Pakistanis? Afghans? Somalis? Iraqis? Yemenis? Those are just the ones we see in the news. Who knows about all the ones we don't see.

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