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Rome in Ruins

nytimes.com

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Re: Rome in Ruins

#51

Post by tomjakubowski »

Frondo wrote: post #35
bobthepanda wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This helps to a point, but people only have so much time and can only do so much if the system is systemically broken as it is in Rome, where they are simply not able to process trash even when placed in dumpsters. Plus if the trash contains lots of things like broken glass or sharps, it might be dangerous for untrained citizens to dispose of trash on the street. America hasn’t really made a dent in domestic poverty…

American charitable donations are only so high because church tithing counts. When's the last time you saw a church organize a street cleaning party, though? (or opening its tax-free building to the homeless?)

> or opening its tax-free building to the homeless?

Here are like a dozen examples off the top of my head.

https://www.journeystheroadhome.org/pads-shelter-program.htm...

Re: Rome in Ruins

#52

Post by yardie »

fiblye wrote: post #37
lordnacho wrote: post #36

I've driven into Italy from Switzerland on a few occasions. It's like one of those MMOs where you know you're in a new zone immediately. Even though you're driving you can tell exactly where the border is, not just where the official building for the import/export inspectors are, but the exact place where the Swiss asphalt ends and the Italian begins. Switzerland: Asphalt is perfect. No potholes, it might be a Formul…

I've heard a lot from other Americans about thinking France was a dump when they visited, and I really thought they were exaggerating. When I visited, I was actually pretty surprised to find it just how they described it. I wasn't sure if it was just that it was different, but I guess it's nice knowing at least some Europeans seem to agree. What really shocked me was how often I've heard terrible things about China f…

Where the hell did they go?! Ive lived in France for over a decade. Trust me, Saint Denis is nothing compared to South Bronx.

I’ve been to seriously bad places in the US. Like 3rd world shitting in outhouses bad. Nothing like that exists in France.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#54

Post by iguy »

southerndrift wrote: post #48
jpatokal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And northern Italy is the "good bit": by and large, the further down south into the mezzogiorno you go, the worse it gets. I was once in Palermo, the largest city in Sicily, which has buildings that were bombed in WW2 and have not been repaired. An American couple wandered past, looking for the famed Piazza Pretoria: they were actually on it, they just didn't realize the moldy pool with a boot floating in it was the…

Some time ago, I came across the Wikipedia page of Naples [1]: * >The University of Naples, the first university in Europe dedicated to training secular administrators, * >Naples became part of the Kingdom of Italy in 1861 as part of the Italian unification, ending the era of Bourbon rule. The kingdom of the Two Sicilies had been wealthy, and as many as 443.2 million ducats were taken from the old kingdom's banks as…

> It's funny that part of the north believes that they were better off without the south[2].

Or perhaps rather, that they would now be better off.

In 1861 Switzerland was a bunch of poor shepherds with goitre. But the world has changed.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#55

Post by hydrox24 »

Frondo wrote: post #35
bobthepanda wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This helps to a point, but people only have so much time and can only do so much if the system is systemically broken as it is in Rome, where they are simply not able to process trash even when placed in dumpsters. Plus if the trash contains lots of things like broken glass or sharps, it might be dangerous for untrained citizens to dispose of trash on the street. America hasn’t really made a dent in domestic poverty…

American charitable donations are only so high because church tithing counts. When's the last time you saw a church organize a street cleaning party, though? (or opening its tax-free building to the homeless?)

In the USA churches provide a substantial portion of the shelter available to the homeless.[0] Church tithing is often charitable, and churches often open their doors to provide community services.

Churches may not regularly organise street cleaning parties, but I don't think that they consider litter to be one of society's great sins either.

[0]: https://www.baylor.edu/mediacommunications/news.php?action=s...

Re: Rome in Ruins

#56

Post by iguy »

aristophenes wrote: post #41
lordnacho wrote: post #36

I've driven into Italy from Switzerland on a few occasions. It's like one of those MMOs where you know you're in a new zone immediately. Even though you're driving you can tell exactly where the border is, not just where the official building for the import/export inspectors are, but the exact place where the Swiss asphalt ends and the Italian begins. Switzerland: Asphalt is perfect. No potholes, it might be a Formul…

They probably do hire people to clean things up. Those people probably just don’t actually clean.

Something like that. It's not a lack of tax revenue or of potential employees, it's the system which is supposed to connect these two.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#57

Post by icebraining »

Shivetya wrote: post #47
lordnacho wrote: post #36

I've driven into Italy from Switzerland on a few occasions. It's like one of those MMOs where you know you're in a new zone immediately. Even though you're driving you can tell exactly where the border is, not just where the official building for the import/export inspectors are, but the exact place where the Swiss asphalt ends and the Italian begins. Switzerland: Asphalt is perfect. No potholes, it might be a Formul…

the issue with hiring as you qualified it is that many would find it insulting to the work that needs to be done. the wage they would want would be completely out of proportion to the skill level required yet they would rather not work than suffer offense. We have created in the Western world a sense of entitlement such that there are jobs only those who immigrate will take. Not because because the work is hard but b…

I don't see how this rant explains the differences seen between Italy and Switzerland, both of which are in the Western world, last time I checked.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#58

Post by qubex »

agumonkey wrote: post #45
lordnacho wrote: post #36

I've driven into Italy from Switzerland on a few occasions. It's like one of those MMOs where you know you're in a new zone immediately. Even though you're driving you can tell exactly where the border is, not just where the official building for the import/export inspectors are, but the exact place where the Swiss asphalt ends and the Italian begins. Switzerland: Asphalt is perfect. No potholes, it might be a Formul…

I went in Italy only once, but I find it's pretty similar to tropical islands in spirit. Cramped mountain roads, care free lifestyle. I remember in the 90s they were still using old buses on super tiny high altitude roads, driver would barely look while driving. It's possible that for them, it just doesn't matter, and things are ok this way. For people used to lots of infrastructure it's a shocker, but sometimes (exc…

I’m Italian and I live here in the northern parts of Italy that directly abut Switzerland. We’re not happy-go-lucky (or at the very least we aren’t anymore, haven’t been since the end of the nineties). We’re mostly exhausted and desperate about the apparently endless slide into destitution that our former political class failed to prevent (by failing to foresee the downsides of ‘globalisation’ for a cheap manufacturing economy such as ours was) and that our present political class apparently cannot reverse. It’s horrifying to live in a country that is literally falling apart around you.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#59

Post by caymanjim »

This article is seriously lacking in photo evidence. Aside from the headline image, and one of dumpsters, none of the photos contain any trash or graffiti.

Re: Rome in Ruins

#60

Post by agumonkey »

qubex wrote: post #58
agumonkey wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went in Italy only once, but I find it's pretty similar to tropical islands in spirit. Cramped mountain roads, care free lifestyle. I remember in the 90s they were still using old buses on super tiny high altitude roads, driver would barely look while driving. It's possible that for them, it just doesn't matter, and things are ok this way. For people used to lots of infrastructure it's a shocker, but sometimes (exc…

I’m Italian and I live here in the northern parts of Italy that directly abut Switzerland. We’re not happy-go-lucky (or at the very least we aren’t anymore, haven’t been since the end of the nineties). We’re mostly exhausted and desperate about the apparently endless slide into destitution that our former political class failed to prevent (by failing to foresee the downsides of ‘globalisation’ for a cheap manufacturi…

Then I'm sorry to hear that. This partly explains the political context in italy, hard struggles and anger => further right.

Do you think there's a way to resolve this ?

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