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Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

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Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#121

Post by dolguldur »

wutbrodo wrote: post #119
asabjorn wrote: post #64

Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way. Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is; 1) explicitly anti free-speech 2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reaso…

The problem is a lack of other options, driven by the incentives and actions of payment processors like Mastercard. This isn't just theoretical; those who tried switching to Subscribestar after the Sargon incident immediately lost their income again as PayPal cut ties with Subscribestar. The whole "it's a free market, build your own platform" excuse for deplatforming gets increasingly weak as the deplatforming moves…

One of the reasons why crypto currencies are useful. Same thing happened back when Wikileaks needed donation money and every established platform cut them loose.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#122

Post by xrd »

Qworg wrote: post #50
xrd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if it uses cryptocurrency, right? The middleman disappears in that case.

The middleman just becomes the exchanges (who also have to deal with payment processors).

Respectfully, I totally disagree.

First, many exchanges (at least in the US) allow you to purchase with bank transfer, not a credit card. That completely changes the context of the risk profile. Credit card companies are much more concerned about fraud since CC's are so much easier to perpetrate fraudulent transactions. Its relevant for any kind of "riskier" transaction, like those on something like Patreon.

More importantly, once you have purchased cryptocurrency, you can easily transfer to a wallet which you control. Install MetaMask, then move currency to your new wallet on your Mac/Windows/PC. If you keep everything in Coinbase, you are right you are subject to their rules when you attempt to transfer money. If you keep funds in your own wallet, you are 100% free to transfer money to ANYONE without restriction. This is what people mean when they say "decentralization."

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#123

Post by dragonwriter »

floatingatoll wrote: post #120
lotsofpulp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really amazing to me how many people can’t be bothered to spend 5 min on learning the basics of their country’s labor laws.

Indeed! > The holiday premium for time worked on the six named holidays shall be paid at three times (3X) the straight time rate of pay. https://ufcw324.org/holiday-pay-and-holiday-week-overtime-fo...

That's a specific union contract requirement from the involved union local’s website, not general labor law.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#124

Post by dragonwriter »

floatingatoll wrote: post #24

Patreon is very likely on mandatory US Holiday today. By the time they read this thread on Wednesday, it will be far too late for them to fend off the mob. They deserve one business day to reply, and they won't have had that until Wednesday at the _earliest_. Be kind. EDIT: If your reply is "they should reply 24/7/365", ask yourself whether it makes financial sense to staff a support team on Christmas at triple-overt…

> Patreon is very likely on mandatory US Holiday today

The US doesn't have mandatory holidays, and neither do most, if any, US states.

> ask yourself whether it makes financial sense to staff a support team on Christmas at triple-overtime pay

Except for a very small fraction of union jobs, triple-overtime for holiday work isn't a thing in the US.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#125

Post by floatingatoll »

dragonwriter wrote: post #123
floatingatoll wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed! > The holiday premium for time worked on the six named holidays shall be paid at three times (3X) the straight time rate of pay. https://ufcw324.org/holiday-pay-and-holiday-week-overtime-fo...

That's a specific union contract requirement from the involved union local’s website, not general labor law.

If you don’t consider union contracts as part of labor law, you’re in for a world of surprise when you encounter your first unionized workforce.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#126

Post by MsMowz »

fargo wrote: post #73
asabjorn wrote: post #64

Patreon has been on a spree to ban people that think the wrong way. Matt Christiansen had a call [1] with Patreon to discuss their banning of Sargon of Akkad. Sargon was notified of the banning by his patrons, not Patreon, and had no recourse to challenge the decision. In the call Patreon made it clear that their platform is; 1) explicitly anti free-speech 2) is not a free market (they can ban you for arbitrary reaso…

I wonder if this has to do with the Kushners (Thrive Capital) leading their latest funding round

Why would the Kushners be stifling right-wing voices?

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#127

Post by dragonwriter »

floatingatoll wrote: post #125
dragonwriter wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a specific union contract requirement from the involved union local’s website, not general labor law.

If you don’t consider union contracts as part of labor law, you’re in for a world of surprise when you encounter your first unionized workforce.

Adhering to whatever union contract is applicable is a requirement of labor law, but the contents of a particular union contract don't establish a claim about what is required under generally-applicable labor law.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#128

Post by smsm42 »

beerbajay wrote: post #103
xolorg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon is reknown for political censorship of centrists and the right.

Oh come on, they have a ToS like all other companies. It's not "censorship" to not do business with someone. Also, "the right" here is people like Milo and Lauren Southern who are out in the real world causing harm.

It is most definitely censorship. It is not state censorship, and it is not prohibited by the law, but it's definitely an activity targeted to suppress expression of ideas Patreon censors do not like, and it is clearly fitting every reasonable definition of censorship.

The fact that it's not state censorship and thus not aided by state repressive apparatus makes it less abhorrent, but still harmful enough. Especially given that this censorship effort is not solely done by Patreon: most major providers - each of them enjoying near-monopoly in their field - are currently engaged in a concentrated effort to suppress speech they deem offensive. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Google, Apple, Patreon, Paypal, Visa, Mastercard - they all take concerted and persistent effort to make views and expressions they dislike unavailable on the Internet, or at least very, very hard to reach.

The effect, while not as drastic as censorship in a totalitarian state - you won't get jailed or shot for sharing a spicy joke, though you could lose your business, your job and your career - is definitely of the same kind and direction as the efforts of any totalitarian state. The goal is to make only conformant expression possible and to make people who do not conform, who want to challenge the reigning dogmas, feel afraid and be excluded from any Internet platform of notice. And until we have viable alternative to censorship platforms, the effects of this would be similar - though, obviously, less drastic - to the effects of state censorship.

But the fact that we are not in North Korea yet is not the reason to continue on the road to this direction - it's a wakeup call to turn around and walk away from it. Including walking away - as much as possible - from censorship platforms.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#129

Post by smsm42 »

manfredo wrote: post #2

Patreon sounds like something relatively easy to replicate. Effectively every utility implements what patron provides. It's essentially just scheduling recurring payments, with a discussion forum attached. More behavior like what we've been seeing Patreon do lately, and I can see larger creators shifting to hosing their own patronage services. Essentially the same reason why EA, Blizzard, and even more niche game pub…

Technically it may be easy, but handling money would surely involve contact with banks, regulatory system, etc. and these things are never easy. And they are very intolerant to mistakes, even innocent ones - imagine getting your bank account frozen because you failed to comply with some obscure regulatory filing and then being unable to do anything until some bureaucratic entity (which are known for their agility and excellent customer service) figures out whether or not you are a front for Columbian narcocartel? A startup won't survive such thing.

I'm not saying it's not doable - but I suspect it's harder than it appears, if you don't want to rely on established payment processing infrastructure.

Re: Patreon suspended my account. They have not notified me

#130

Post by smsm42 »

xrd wrote: post #122
Qworg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The middleman just becomes the exchanges (who also have to deal with payment processors).

Respectfully, I totally disagree. First, many exchanges (at least in the US) allow you to purchase with bank transfer, not a credit card. That completely changes the context of the risk profile. Credit card companies are much more concerned about fraud since CC's are so much easier to perpetrate fraudulent transactions. Its relevant for any kind of "riskier" transaction, like those on something like Patreon. More imp…

You are free to transfer bitcoins to anyone, maybe (provided you don't lose your wallet). But once you want to convert BTC to USD, you'd still have to play by the rules set by the banking system. Maybe you could slip under the radar if you deal with small amounts, but once it is serious, there would be checks you'd have to pass.
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