Live data from Hacker News

The Internet of Unprofitable Things

strugglers.net

101–110 of 129 posts

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#101
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine 5 minutes being well into I care territory. Could be the difference, say, between pulling into a dark drive way or having light.

Program the lights to come on 30 minutes earlier then. An overcast day and a new moon vs a day with high cirrus overhead and clear skies to the west almost surely has more variability than 5 minutes' difference.

If it drifts at 5 minutes per week you still have to reprogram after 6 weeks.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#102

Device fleets are incredibly hard to get right, and if you have no updateability, you have to nail them the first time. For someone coming from a cloud background, it's a jungle out there, where all sorts of "easy" or "solved" problems are nothing of the sort. As a sort of PSA, I want to plug the work that we have done at balena.io (formerly known as resin.io) to solve problems like these for everyone deploying Linux…

Hey, I wish the Pi foundation would take up https://github.com/balena-io/wifi-connect - I thought about doing something like this ages ago but never got around to it. Thanks for open sourcing it.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#103
post #97

Device fleets are incredibly hard to get right, and if you have no updateability, you have to nail them the first time. For someone coming from a cloud background, it's a jungle out there, where all sorts of "easy" or "solved" problems are nothing of the sort. As a sort of PSA, I want to plug the work that we have done at balena.io (formerly known as resin.io) to solve problems like these for everyone deploying Linux…

> I've seen things you wouldn't believe. I've seen devices catch on fire ...off the shoulder of Orion?

Like bad enclosures in rain.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#104

Device fleets are incredibly hard to get right, and if you have no updateability, you have to nail them the first time. For someone coming from a cloud background, it's a jungle out there, where all sorts of "easy" or "solved" problems are nothing of the sort. As a sort of PSA, I want to plug the work that we have done at balena.io (formerly known as resin.io) to solve problems like these for everyone deploying Linux…

> If you have no updateability, you have to nail them the first time I would go a bit more radical: I'd say you'd have a problem.

Seriously. I do robots (OTTO Motors) and I just can't imagine shipping _anything_ to the field that I didn't have at least some plan for how to keep up to date. Even if the plan was the Panavision model of only ever leasing hardware and having all hardware periodically make its way back to the factory for updates and refurbishing, that's still more of a plan than a bunch of unidentifiable devices floating around at customer sites.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#105
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Program the lights to come on 30 minutes earlier then. An overcast day and a new moon vs a day with high cirrus overhead and clear skies to the west almost surely has more variability than 5 minutes' difference.

If it drifts at 5 minutes per week you still have to reprogram after 6 weeks.

Sure, but that's ~500ppm drift, which is fairly extreme.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#106

In short, if you are ever going to make an embedded device, or an operating system distribution, or anything with NTP default on, please make sure, 1. NEVER, ever hardcode an individual NTP server (in form of a IP or domain). DO NOT just go to a list of NTP servers, then copy a few into your code. DON'T ping pool.ntp.org and get its IP address written down. DON'T DO ANY OF THESE! PLEASE! 2. DO NOT use Stratum 0 and S…

Everything you say is true, but this article is not really about "how to get NTP right". It's about how (not) to deploy embedded software.

If customers can't update their devices' software (or you can't push a remote update), then you need to get the software right in version 1. This seems to be a foreign concept to software developers nowadays, who are used to the world of endless updates and patches. It takes a different kind of development process and a lot of QA to do it right.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#108
I should really put some time into writing this up, but my first script that went corporate-wide was an NTP catch up script.

Now that I think about it, I really don't know why an NTP catch up script was needed.

Basically VMWare time was not reliable. Windows will by default not catch up unless you get to around 5 minutes off. My script checked every day to see what the drift was and correct it if it was more than 5 seconds of drift.

The underlying reason for concern was logging - we wanted to make sure that our log times were comparable.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks really cool. I may be deploying a fleet of Raspberry Pi or similar servers in the near future and this might save us a ton of headaches. The target context is a medical facility in a remote location without Internet (or extremely limited Internet), though. Is there a way to distribute updates by USB stick? What's the best place to read stories of people who have tried deploying with Balena on RasPi-type se…

please do yourself a favor and don't remotely deploy rpi or anything that uses microsd cards for OS image and boot. The write lifetime of those, even using "industrial" cards, will mean a huge failure rate even with very light usage. Only use some sort of real sata3 or nvme bus SSD.

There are ways to reduce the risk, though, depending on your workload. It is possible to use the sd card just to boot, with all actual file systems in a USB attached device. You can also use some of the (very limited) memory as a ram disk for things with lots of writes...
Post reply on HN