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The Internet of Unprofitable Things

strugglers.net

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Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#91

Post by jsjohnst »

bcaa7f3a8bbc wrote: post #66
jsjohnst wrote: post #62

It’s so simple to setup your own Stratum-1 server, I don’t get why more folks don’t. The one I keep in my house is a 1U unit about the size of a 16 port switch and keeps time accurate to 15ns via a small Multi-GNSS antenna (yes, serious overkill for home needs, but I already owned it for a use case that used to need it).

Unfortunately, having more Stratum-1 servers does nothing to help clueless device manufacturers who hardcoding the IP address of an individual server, and damaging the community service. But yes, when we talk about the NTP community in general, we certainly needs more Stratum-1 servers. Nowadays, running a Stratum-1 is easy, the hardware is cheap, a single broad computer w/ time source from a shortwave radio or GPS.…

Re: #3, many good data centers either provide a stratum-1 to sync to or let you run your own cable/antenna if you are at least renting a cage worth of space.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#93

Post by jsjohnst »

Rjevski wrote: post #76
bcaa7f3a8bbc wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, having more Stratum-1 servers does nothing to help clueless device manufacturers who hardcoding the IP address of an individual server, and damaging the community service. But yes, when we talk about the NTP community in general, we certainly needs more Stratum-1 servers. Nowadays, running a Stratum-1 is easy, the hardware is cheap, a single broad computer w/ time source from a shortwave radio or GPS.…

> a good way is using the time provided by mobile basestations That would definitely not be Stratum-1, so I wouldn’t recommend it.

That and also many DCs I’ve been in barely get cell signal on the floor.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#94

Post by jsjohnst »

bcaa7f3a8bbc wrote: post #77
Rjevski wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a good way is using the time provided by mobile basestations That would definitely not be Stratum-1, so I wouldn’t recommend it.

Thanks for reminding me. If a mobile basestation is not usable, it seems to me that the best way is trying a WWVB-disciplined oscillator. Shortwave is certainly not available indoor, but longwave reception is possible. Hopefully it won't be killed by NIST due to the funding issues...

I’ve never been successful getting long wave reception in a data center (didn’t try running cable to an external antenna though, as then why not GNSS if that’s doable).

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#95

Post by jsjohnst »

blfr wrote: post #89
jsjohnst wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point GP was making is that you don’t “own” IP addresses, you effectively “lease” them. If you don’t pay your ARIN (or others) dues, you’ll lose them.

Sure but that is also true of a domain name.

Domains are much more vocal about expiration in my experience, but maybe that’s just the registrars I’ve used.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#96

Post by jopsen »

bcaa7f3a8bbc wrote: post #43

In short, if you are ever going to make an embedded device, or an operating system distribution, or anything with NTP default on, please make sure, 1. NEVER, ever hardcode an individual NTP server (in form of a IP or domain). DO NOT just go to a list of NTP servers, then copy a few into your code. DON'T ping pool.ntp.org and get its IP address written down. DON'T DO ANY OF THESE! PLEASE! 2. DO NOT use Stratum 0 and S…

Couldn't you CNAME ntp.yourdomin.com to pool.ntp.org?

Baking in domains or IPs you don't own always seems like a bad idea.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#97

Post by antonvs »

alexandros wrote: post #38

Device fleets are incredibly hard to get right, and if you have no updateability, you have to nail them the first time. For someone coming from a cloud background, it's a jungle out there, where all sorts of "easy" or "solved" problems are nothing of the sort. As a sort of PSA, I want to plug the work that we have done at balena.io (formerly known as resin.io) to solve problems like these for everyone deploying Linux…

> I've seen things you wouldn't believe. I've seen devices catch on fire

...off the shoulder of Orion?

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#98

Post by TylerE »

sokoloff wrote: post #71
pstrateman wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An RTC chip without temperature compensation in an extremely variable temperature environment.

How far would a lighting control or HVAC control have to drift before it became impractical to use? I could imagine 45 minutes could still be “eh, who cares?” 45 minutes in a year is under 1 part in 10000.

I can imagine 5 minutes being well into I care territory. Could be the difference, say, between pulling into a dark drive way or having light.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#99

Post by TylerE »

bytematic wrote: post #13
eropple wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand comments like this on HN. I've derived a lot of value through the years from thoughtful questions asked to dig further into an article but I've never understood why somebody would assert "I don't even know what X is." Search engines exist, yes?

His argument is likely that you shouldn't have to when a simple explanation could fit into the article.

Then reading what could be an interesting article becomes an exercise in being treated like an intellectual toddler.

Re: The Internet of Unprofitable Things

#100

Post by sokoloff »

TylerE wrote: post #98
sokoloff wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How far would a lighting control or HVAC control have to drift before it became impractical to use? I could imagine 45 minutes could still be “eh, who cares?” 45 minutes in a year is under 1 part in 10000.

I can imagine 5 minutes being well into I care territory. Could be the difference, say, between pulling into a dark drive way or having light.

Program the lights to come on 30 minutes earlier then. An overcast day and a new moon vs a day with high cirrus overhead and clear skies to the west almost surely has more variability than 5 minutes' difference.
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