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Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

bloomberg.com

51–60 of 136 posts

Re: Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

#51
The neat little graph showing the rise in global yearly investments up to 2040 is amusing. Nassim Taleb has made me very wary of these things.

what's even the calculation behind a projection like that, it even has a little spike in 2035!

Re: Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

#52
post #5

The rather extreme losses associated with electricity > heat > heat engine > electricity seem like an absolute deal killer. Assuming they are at an extreme 50% round trip efficiency you need to be extremely cheap to have a hope of breaking even. Worse heat has fairly low energy density and cools over time so they can’t really scale the up or down that much. It might be possible if they where starting with heat, but f…

I'm not an engineer, and the article doesn't state it, but there are probably benefits to the technology. For one thing I imagine the heat-content and thus energy storage density must be rather high, while the storage material is probably quite cheap. Water would have (a lot) lesser density, and most electrical batteries are way more expensive.

Additionally the molten salt may be good at insulating itself or at least easy to insulate against heat losses cheaply.

And maybe it can be fueled by energy forms other than electricity.

Re: Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

#54
post #5

The rather extreme losses associated with electricity > heat > heat engine > electricity seem like an absolute deal killer. Assuming they are at an extreme 50% round trip efficiency you need to be extremely cheap to have a hope of breaking even. Worse heat has fairly low energy density and cools over time so they can’t really scale the up or down that much. It might be possible if they where starting with heat, but f…

Germany and California have both experienced negative electricity prices. The economics of this kind of battery could very well work with a low efficiency if it's cheap to build.

Not just Germany and California. The central plains regions of Kansas/Oklahoma and parts of Texas are really high wind producers. We have negative prices from time to time and not just because of congestion. The marginal cost of energy is simply sometimes negative. This has an impact on all nodal prices in the market.

Re: Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

#56
post #53

I'm pretty naive about this stuff, but wouldn't an easy solution for storing energy to be, just use energy to lift something very heavy into the air, and then extract energy when it's lowered?

That is one of the ideas being explored:

https://qz.com/1355672/stacking-concrete-blocks-is-a-surpris...

Re: Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

#57

This is extremely exciting technology! Any energy science aficionado worth their salt knows that molten salt can have very high energy density.

You should take it with a grain of salt, tho.

How can you even distinguish one grain from another once the molten situation kicks in?

Re: Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

#58

The neat little graph showing the rise in global yearly investments up to 2040 is amusing. Nassim Taleb has made me very wary of these things. what's even the calculation behind a projection like that, it even has a little spike in 2035!

Well 2035 was the year they discovered the catalyst that made the reaction hold for months instead of hours. It took years to commercialize though.

Re: Alphabet spinoff Malta raises $26M for technology to store power in molten salt

#60
post #53

I'm pretty naive about this stuff, but wouldn't an easy solution for storing energy to be, just use energy to lift something very heavy into the air, and then extract energy when it's lowered?

That's an avenue that's also being pursued, but it's not obviously superior to other storage plans. You've got lots of moving parts under high load, you need enough structural support to ensure that the top-heavy structure is stable.

It also doesn't contain a huge amount of energy - 1 ton of liquid NaCl contains about 700MJ of usable energy, you'd have to lift 700 tons of material 100m to contain the same in gravitational potential.

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