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Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

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Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#121

Post by stdplaceholder »

influx wrote: post #102
baby wrote: post #72

Another weird thing to me, as a foreigner in the US, is the fascination people have for the "troops".

To give you some context on this, after the Vietnam war many protestors attacked the troops coming home. Many in the US, later regretted this, considering that many of these troops were drafted into the war, and came from some of the most vulnerable communities. After the first Gulf War, there was a deliberate effort to thank the troops when they got home, which has persisted after 9/11.

To give _you_ some context on this, attacks by protesters on returning troops from Vietnam is a myth. The reason people venerate "the troops" today is 50 years of concerted right-wing militaristic propaganda which serves to deflect legitimate debate by classifying any kind of criticism as being "against the troops".

https://www.amazon.com/Spitting-Image-Memory-Legacy-Vietnam/...

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#122

Post by coldtea »

beamatronic wrote: post #57
snow_mac wrote: post #42

This is so true. I went to Shanghai about 3 summers ago right when Denver was finishing up the "A Line" train from Downtown to the Airport. This project cost over a billion dollars and the damn thing can't run smoothly or stay operational. Tons of issues. Meanwhile we took the Maglev train from the Pudong Airport to the Shanghai City Center. The Maglev cost $1.2 billion dollars [1]. The train can travel up to 270 MPH…

We could have that too if our government had unchecked eminent domain power. Is that what we want? Seems to be one or the other.

Because good construction projects take "unchecked eminent domain power"?

Japan, Korea, EU countries et al seem to make modern train lines and other infrastructure just fine without that.

Or how about modernizing the NYC subway for example? No "domain power" needed for that, just political will...

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#123

Post by dgudkov »

While he has a point, it's worth noting that at the same time China's military spending have tripled over the last 10 years [1]. Did Jack Ma say anything about that? Or is he, as a member of the China Communist Party allowed to criticize only US government?

He is an extremely talented person and smart entrepreneur, but it's hard to believe that his US foreign affair statements have no background agenda. It also could be that the main audience for his message is inside China, not outside of it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_China

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#124

Post by [deleted] »

jaredklewis wrote: post #92
snow_mac wrote: post #42

This is so true. I went to Shanghai about 3 summers ago right when Denver was finishing up the "A Line" train from Downtown to the Airport. This project cost over a billion dollars and the damn thing can't run smoothly or stay operational. Tons of issues. Meanwhile we took the Maglev train from the Pudong Airport to the Shanghai City Center. The Maglev cost $1.2 billion dollars [1]. The train can travel up to 270 MPH…

And in case anyone doesn’t realize just how far behind US trains are, consider that Japan built its first bullet trains in the 1950s, when they went 130 mph. Today, Japan’s bullet trains have top speeds as high as 250 mph. The technology to build fast trains has existed for more than 60 years.

[deleted]

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#125

Post by Redoubts »

aphextron wrote: post #118
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US spent $14 trillion upholding a world order of free trade and international maritime law I am a huge supporter of the U.S. Navy's freedom of navigation duties. It's expensive, and it's worth it. But carpet bombing Baghdad does nothing for our trade routes.

>I am a huge supporter of the U.S. Navy's freedom of navigation duties. It's expensive, and it's worth it. But carpet bombing Baghdad does nothing for our trade routes. Every reasonable person thinks Iraq was a mistake in hindsight. Of course it was. But that does not negate the other 85% of all US defense spending which has been a shield against tyranny for the vast majority of humanity. Our support of NATO is the o…

>But that does not negate the other 85%

If 15% of military spending was such a wild blunder, what’s makes you so sure the remaining 85% is solid spending?

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#126

Post by marnett »

achou wrote: post #116

Folks, realize that US military spending: - backstops the US dollar as the world's reserve currency, which allows the US to have a large deficit with low risk to its economic system, which basically means the US can ship paper to other countries and they will send real stuff back to us in return. Let's not kid ourselves, this has a lot to do with the US' large military and financial advantage. - makes opportunistic a…

Sure we can all acknowledge those are all deeply complex and intertwined facts about the U.S. and its military strategy and spending. Foreign policy, both diplomatic and militaristic, are also not democratic - I think some people just want to call out "the worlds exemplar of democracy" spending the largest portion of its budget on undemocratic means. We The People want to see something more meaningful domestically from our tax dollars and public debts - if the elite know better, then drop the facades.

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#127

Post by m_fayer »

achou wrote: post #116

Folks, realize that US military spending: - backstops the US dollar as the world's reserve currency, which allows the US to have a large deficit with low risk to its economic system, which basically means the US can ship paper to other countries and they will send real stuff back to us in return. Let's not kid ourselves, this has a lot to do with the US' large military and financial advantage. - makes opportunistic a…

Thinking that this spending is ok based on your reasons amounts to a tacit acceptance of a huge amount of dishonesty, I find it quite cynical.

This is a totally ass-backwards way to do stimulus and domestic investing, with the upside that it lets you do stimulus and domestic investing while pretending you're not doing it, but doing something macho and patriotic instead.

This is a way to maintain US economic and diplomatic dominance while pretending it's all about Defense/The Homeland/Freedom(tm), all while telling all those soldiers busy getting killed and wounded by (who this time?) and killing bewildered probably innocent (whooo?) that this is all about loving and defending your country.

If you can't openly sell empire to your citizens, maybe you shouldn't have an empire.

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#128

Post by mrguyorama »

cpursley wrote: post #32
fit2rule wrote: post #10

Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent lives lost, murdered by America's war machine in its lust for total military domination of its so-called enemies. Its not enough that Americans' finally come to grip with the terms of their own scam. The American people must confront the crimes against humanity that their state has committed, time and again. With such human destitution in its midst, as well as at t…

Yeah, it's not that black and white. Despite a pretty spastic and often misguided foreign policy, the US human rights record is much much better than other large political entities (i.e, USSR, China, etc).

China and the USSR being worse does not absolve us.

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#129

Post by fowkswe »

snowwrestler wrote: post #85
fowkswe wrote: post #36

Why haven't the ecosystem of infrastructure companies lobbied and infiltrated government the way that defense companies have?

Infrastructure spending has sadly become partisan because a higher percentage of infrastructure workers are unionized than in the broader economy. Obama and the Democratic Congress delivered a stimulus bill in 2009 that was largely "shovel-ready" infrastructure spending. Because of that, it was attacked by the GOP, who then took over Congress and has proceeded to underfund infrastructure as a means of weakening union…

Good answer, thanks.

You bring up heath care, which is another industry also had a successful role in shaping American politics. It just seems like real estate developers / construction companies could up their game a bit to steer things towards infrastructure projects.

Re: Jack Ma: US wasted trillions on warfare instead of investing in infrastructure

#130

Post by seandoe »

baby wrote: post #101
Varcht wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helps to have millions of workers willing to work for pennies a day as well. edit: I guess that is redundant under unchecked eminent domain power.

you mean waiters in the US?

Waiters and service industry people have done pretty well in every state I've lived in... minimum wage plus tips would equate to $20-$30/hr or more. But I could see it being tougher in states where the minimum wage is far less for service industry jobs.
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