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MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

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Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#91

Post by josefresco »

mkhalil wrote: post #82
josefresco wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and own SMTP server Good luck with that.

Way to patronize someone trying to be self-sufficient. Just because you read blog posts titled "DON'T HOST YOUR OWN MAIL", doesn't mean you shouldn't. People are scared of hosting their own mail servers because they a) are told they shouldn't b) don't understand SMTP. I am all for decentralizing this hyper-centralized internet.

Sorry, I'm old enough to have come from the era of "DIY" mass emailing which transitioned (rightfully so) to using providers like Constant Contact/MailChimp. I've seen first hand the drawbacks of emailing thousands of people via your own SMTP server. Blacklists, legal threats, deliverability issues, proper unsubscribe, formatting etc. And this was early 00's when much of the legal framework around email marketing was either non-existent or weakly enforced.

Maybe I'm too old? Has email come around to the point where someone can host their own email and send out thousands of emails without having to deal with a mountain of headaches again? That would be sweet, maybe I can go back to telling clients it's okay to paste a massive list of email into their Outlook's BCC field? It would certainly save them some money. I still to this day hear from clients who send "small" mass emails wondering why their friends at AOL, or didn't get the email.

Sorry but this is based on my direct, first hand experience with hundreds of small businesses doing this exact thing. I don't base my business model off of some random blog post, I base on years of experience and the lessons learned from getting burned.

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#92

Post by ravenstine »

hippich wrote: post #13

To people mentioning public shaming. I had a mailing list with them removed with all contacts lost and account banned without even notifying me. Customer support indeed responded, but with something like your account was banned because you are involved into cryptocurrencies (i had hashcash.io - no selling or buying of crypto is even close) and we completely wiped all your data. Only after a hint about possible public…

How difficult was it to set up an SMTP server? I know that merely installing and configuring the software isn't that hard, but the common opinion of late seems to be that setting up things like MX records(I really don't even know how those work) is too onerous. If it's not that difficult, then there really should be fewer people/orgs relying on services like MailChimp.

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#93

Post by harowitzblack »

josefresco wrote: post #61
nik736 wrote: post #26

What I don't understand is... when this data is oh so important, where is the backup?

I deal with small business owners regularly. While this seems crazy, it's not even close to the worst we've seen. Entire businesses based on free email , entire businesses based on a social media following from one network, entire businesses based on an undocumented "black box" server that everyone is afraid to touch ... the list goes on. I routinely think about by my business model and the repercussions of losing ac…

Hey, I'm building a tool that automatically backs up your email subscribers and stores them in google sheets. It's still in dev, but feel free to subscribe https://stompapp.xyz/

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#94

Post by LanceH »

cmiller1 wrote: post #63
tjoff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still a lie. Also keep in mind the perspective and context that the end user has no way of knowing. And even if the data can be recovered in an unofficial manner whether they will actually bother is highly unlikely if they care as little as they most obviously do. So, as a user it is a pretty safe bet to just assume it is gone (but do keep poking).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie "A lie is a statement used intentionally for the purpose of deception" I don't think you can prove it was a lie.

The company is set up to deliver a lie, even if the last person telling it is doing so unintentionally.

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#95

Post by retrogradeorbit »

josefresco wrote: post #66
hippich wrote: post #13

To people mentioning public shaming. I had a mailing list with them removed with all contacts lost and account banned without even notifying me. Customer support indeed responded, but with something like your account was banned because you are involved into cryptocurrencies (i had hashcash.io - no selling or buying of crypto is even close) and we completely wiped all your data. Only after a hint about possible public…

> and own SMTP server Good luck with that.

The s stands for simple.

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#97

Post by Spivak »

dhimes wrote: post #89
Spivak wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lie that organizations have backups? "Your data has been deleted" pretty much has always meant that it was deleted from the live servers and that the deletion will propagate through backups depending on the orgs retention policy/requirements.

"Your data has been deleted" pretty much has always meant To whom? My mother? Nope- she thinks it's gone. So yeah- it's a lie, and you only catch it if you know better. "Yes Dad I did my homework" has pretty much always meant that he hasn't started it yet. No, it's a lie and the organization knows it. They are responsible for training their CS folks.

If I turn on Windows Backup on my Mom's laptop and she right clicks a file and selects "Delete" is the expected behavior that it be deleted in every backup as well?

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#98

Post by amingilani »

Spivak wrote: post #60
tjoff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is still a lie. Also keep in mind the perspective and context that the end user has no way of knowing. And even if the data can be recovered in an unofficial manner whether they will actually bother is highly unlikely if they care as little as they most obviously do. So, as a user it is a pretty safe bet to just assume it is gone (but do keep poking).

It's a lie that organizations have backups? "Your data has been deleted" pretty much has always meant that it was deleted from the live servers and that the deletion will propagate through backups depending on the orgs retention policy/requirements.

MailChimp, the organization, first stated that all data was completely wiped, and when threatened, promptly produced the previously wiped data. MailChimp, as an organization, lied. It doesn't matter if the support agent didn't have the capabilities or not, that's an internal thing.

The organization knows that they have the data, but they trained their staff to reply that it was destroyed.

That's a lie. Not an untrue statement, but a deliberate lie.

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#99

Post by protomyth »

hippich wrote: post #13

To people mentioning public shaming. I had a mailing list with them removed with all contacts lost and account banned without even notifying me. Customer support indeed responded, but with something like your account was banned because you are involved into cryptocurrencies (i had hashcash.io - no selling or buying of crypto is even close) and we completely wiped all your data. Only after a hint about possible public…

I wonder about how they detect cryptocurrencies and if every mailing list that deals with security is going to get tagged. Makes me wonder if any other words are problematic. I wonder if any historical societies use MailChimp to announce their lectures? Might be interesting to see if they got shutdown. Tumblr might not be the only ones having a bit of a problem in proper detection. Reminds me of the YouTubers who do animated history and their changing of all WWII German logos to the YouTube logo to keep away the demonetization.

Re: MailChimp deleted my account with no warning

#100

Post by SkyPuncher »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #64
SkyPuncher wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they lied in the first response (all data is wiped and unrecoverable) Not defending Mailchimp, but keep in mind the perspective and context. To a customer support agent using some backend interface, it very well could be "completely wiped". To an escalation team, they may be able to pull it from backups in an "unofficial" manner.

If management sets up a system which intentionally results in untruths being told to customers ...?

There's nothing nefarious about customer service not having access to every single possible data record on a customer. In fact, I'd be concerned if customer services had access to archived backups or raw server logs.

For most intents and purposes, data existing only on archived backups or raw server logs is "completely wiped".

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