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Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

theintercept.com

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Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#201

Post by int_19h »

sftwds wrote: post #32
president wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there is weight in having Apple on your resume but Google engineers are generally sought after for SE positions. I hear managers pining over Google candidates all the time at my company.

As a Silicon Valley outsider that surprises me. I've heard that interviews at all the FAANG companies are all difficult (as an aside, why is Microsoft never in that list??). For organizations the size of Google and Apple, there are bound to be employees who squeaked by their interviews and would not have been hired at the other company. Why does "Google" on a resume look better than "Apple"? Is the Google interview t…

> I've heard that interviews at all the FAANG companies are all difficult (as an aside, why is Microsoft never in that list??)

Because the original definition of FAANG was for the investor crowd, and looked at companies solely from the perspective of their stock performance and "potential growth". Microsoft wasn't supposed to be good at either back when this was coined.

We now use it in very different contexts, though, such as when discussing employment practices and internal work culture of those companies. In that particular context, I think Microsoft does belong there.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#202

Post by yourbandsucks »

int_19h wrote: post #197
yourbandsucks wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And plenty of American overreactions to terror attacks also had broad support. Same for the Russians, the British, the French.. It's definitely interesting that Chinese nationals were almost universally for dragonfly and yet the "progressive" activists didn't care at all, preferring to pivot the topic into nationalist rivalry. Ask them in a vacuum and they'd say they treasure diverse perspectives..

> It's definitely interesting that Chinese nationals were almost universally for dragonfly and yet the "progressive" activists didn't care at all Human rights are not subject to a simple majority rule. And this whole thing isn't about what Chinese want. It's about what Americans are okay with helping Chinese do. If the majority of Chinese support labor camps for ethnic minorities, that's one thing; but when American…

Dragonfly is a search engine project. It's nothing to do with the situation in Xinjiang other than being in the same country.

The US has our own issues, and I'm not comparing or trivializing anything, but you'd be nuts to say that Google should boycott America over them.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#203

Post by srkmno »

shanghaiaway wrote: post #128
srkmno wrote: post #98

Never really understood why Google running a search engine in China is controversial, it wouldn't be the first US company doing business there, nor the first to censor due to local laws (Apple censors their app store etc) and it's not like tiananmen square queries will be the bulk of their traffic.

It's controversial because Google made such a big deal of not running a search engine in China, and built their corporate brand on top of that conviction.

I don't think that's it, it's not just about pointing out hypocrisy or anything vapid like that, Congresspeople were grandstanding against the move.

It's all just out of proportion somehow.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#204

Post by abc-xyz »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #169
wbl wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese nationals who you heard from with the risk of disappearing on their mind. Ai Weiwei wasn't safe.

So anyone who disagrees with you is being held hostage? How convenient. Riskier to speak up pro-dragonfly inside Google on an h-1b visa than it is to speak up against dragonfly from outside China IMO.

I'd love to see you try (and when you speak against it actually highlight how it would be used to send muslims to concentration camps, put anyone who dared to do harmless searches, such as Tiananmen Massacre at risk, etc.). Best case scenario: your posts won't be seen by anyone since keywords such as Tiananmen Massacre will result in it being shadow banned upon submission. Worst case scenario: your life comes to an end.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#205

Post by abc-xyz »

burtonator wrote: post #147

These ethical dilemmas are really confusing for me. One one had I don't want to be part of this type of behavior but it's just going to give China the opportunity to fund a Google competitor to do it for them... I think it's lose/lose for Google.

It really shouldn't be a dilemma unless you're morally bankrupt. Would you sell a gun to a Neo-Nazi that you knew intended to use it to murder innocent people? After all if you refused (and continued to do nothing to stop him) then he would just buy from your competitor.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#206

Post by fireattack »

QML wrote: post #114
yadongwen wrote: post #79

This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...

Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition…

Just by reading the comments below, I don't think there is any room for opinions of Chinese here. It will be downvoted to hell.

Anyway, I will give you one thing: for Chinese it's about to have an obviously better product to use. It has very little to do with morality when they support it. Of course it's not the case for Americans (or any Westerners) as it doesn't directly affect them.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#207

Post by abc-xyz »

schuke wrote: post #155
aaomidi wrote: post #33

So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…

Google in China won’t make the people more oppressed. It gives us a tool for searchinng. It’s better than being oppressed AND have nothing to search with.

It most definitely would make the people more oppressed. Even if we ignore the fact that the searches would be directly tied to a person, as well as the fact that there are nobody better than Google when it comes to tracking users on mass-scale, then you just have to think about all the people who would stop using VPNs as a result of this. You'd also be a fool to believe that China wouldn't slowly force Google to assist them outside the search engine.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#208

Post by joejerryronnie »

Nasrudith wrote: post #104
iaw wrote: post #80

> Scott Beaumont, Google’s leader in China and a key architect of the Dragonfly project, “did not feel that the security, privacy, and legal teams should be able to question his product decisions,” If I was more eloquent I'd draw some analogy between Scott Beaumont's behavior and China...

Well it is clearly an authoritarian personality - don't question his decisions and just obey. Sucks to work under but isn't usually quite as bad as an authoritarian government . And really that sort of thing should be a reason to be fired instantly from a tech company - not because of employee morale, expecting people you pay to think not to think being bad management, ethics, or anything like that but just because t…

>And really that sort of thing should be a reason to be fired instantly from a tech company

You will find this type of person throughout all companies, including tech. It’s really unfortunate but if these people get results, their horrible behavior is not only tolerated but rewarded.

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#209

Post by abc-xyz »

QML wrote: post #116
izacus wrote: post #5

Great! So will Apple employees walk out next in protest of Apple assisting Chinese government by giving them iMessage and iCloud data? Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

A note that Tim Cook is in favor in doing business in China: "Your choice is, do you participate or do you stand on the sideline and yell at how things should be," Mr. Cook said. "My own view very strongly is you show up and you participate, you get in the arena, because nothing ever changes from the sideline." [1] [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/apples-tim-cook-no-point-yellin...

What has Apple done through their "participation", besides providing the government with billions and supporting their technological advancement?

Re: Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After Internal Confrontation

#210

Post by joejerryronnie »

srkmno wrote: post #200
int_19h wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the rumors, Dragonfly goes far beyond censorship, in that it has provisions to identify specific people from search queries. So it's not just that searching for "Tiananmen Square" wouldn't give any useful results, but it'd also let the Big Brother know who was inappropriately curious. Combine this with their upcoming social credit system, and you can easily see how this is proactively helping build an au…

It's what all companies there are required to do and the Chinese people accept it, and a lot of them welcome the social credit system (according to reporting on the program) it's arrogant to to presume we know what's best for them.

>and a lot of them welcome the social credit system

The first rule of the social credit system: do not disparage the social credit system.

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