191–200 of 372 posts
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I don't know how old you are, but google blossomed under the guise of "do no evil", that is why its controversial.
yep, "don't be evil". and humorously/tellingly that phrase was removed from the code of conduct just this past may. https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...
> Scott Beaumont, Google’s leader in China and a key architect of the Dragonfly project, “did not feel that the security, privacy, and legal teams should be able to question his product decisions,” If I was more eloquent I'd draw some analogy between Scott Beaumont's behavior and China...
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Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition…
> the main opposition is only coming from Americans... oddly enough. Precisely because Americans are concerned that the technology as prototyped in the Chinese market might subsequently be applied in a dark-future American market. It's not farfetched considering the current political climate here.
Never really understood why Google running a search engine in China is controversial, it wouldn't be the first US company doing business there, nor the first to censor due to local laws (Apple censors their app store etc) and it's not like tiananmen square queries will be the bulk of their traffic.
Combine this with their upcoming social credit system, and you can easily see how this is proactively helping build an authoritarian panopticon dystopia.
This is a great loss to Chinese people who have to use worse products such as Baidu and so.com. I was hoping Google's re-entering could result in a better Internet (or Intranet) ecosystem in China but alas...
Since you are one of the few people who support a re-entry of Google into China, can I ask a question? There is no doubt that a cultural gap exists between Chinese and Americans, and their perceptions of the current Chinese government. Should a foreign company like Google adopt the culture of the country they're entering, or maintain the culture of where they're headquartered? From what I've read, the main opposition…
Google is headquartered in the USA. Not only that, but the engineers working on Dragonfly also reside and work in the USA. As such, not only is it not surprising that the main opposition is coming from Americans, but American citizens have a unique right to express it and have something done about that.
If Google execs want to operate in China without being impeded by the American public opinion, they are welcome to spin off an independent organization for Dragonfly and headquarter it in China, where there are no such pesky obstacles.
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#1 is a good point, but in my experience, 'The Governments' approach to Tibetans, Uighurs etc. has the general tacit support of 'The Chinese' and by that I should say 'Han'. Han ethno-nationalism is total and out in the open, it's normative. I suggest most of non-minority China actually supports much of this. As far as #2, it's splitting hairs. People are put in jail because of their ethnicity or faith, and one way o…
And plenty of American overreactions to terror attacks also had broad support. Same for the Russians, the British, the French.. It's definitely interesting that Chinese nationals were almost universally for dragonfly and yet the "progressive" activists didn't care at all, preferring to pivot the topic into nationalist rivalry. Ask them in a vacuum and they'd say they treasure diverse perspectives..
Human rights are not subject to a simple majority rule.
And this whole thing isn't about what Chinese want. It's about what Americans are okay with helping Chinese do. If the majority of Chinese support labor camps for ethnic minorities, that's one thing; but when American citizens aid them in filling those camps, then those citizens are a fair target for their compatriots, regardless of what the Chinese think about it all.
So many people here only look at the business cost of what Google wanted to do and don't care about the human cost. It's great that you were born in a western country with a good understanding of freedom and your rights. The majority of the world don't have these conditions. Your "business" decision effects billions of people in the world. I was born and mostly raised in Iran. "Business" decisions from companies that…
I get what you're saying but a country is sovreign from othets and corporations don't get to decide what's acceptable in a country. It comes down to this imo: will the product be used in ways that are morally wrong? Or will it be used in ways which are legally wrong or socially unacceptable? I agree with you that a company should not sell their products to enable a moral wrong in any country. However, free speech and…
That is not the question at hand. If China or Iran want to implement censorship, Google can't stop them.
The question is whether Google should help them. And since Google is not a Chinese or an Iranian corporation, but rather an American one, USA as a sovereign country - and, since it's a democratic republic, its citizens - absolutely gets to decide what's acceptable on its soil, for its citizens, and for its corporations.
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Google's previous stance was much more understandable: Let the Great Firewall do its work and we'll do ours.
If that's acceptable, then why was this unacceptable? Isn't this project mostly about figuring out whats blocked and caching that?
Never really understood why Google running a search engine in China is controversial, it wouldn't be the first US company doing business there, nor the first to censor due to local laws (Apple censors their app store etc) and it's not like tiananmen square queries will be the bulk of their traffic.
According to the rumors, Dragonfly goes far beyond censorship, in that it has provisions to identify specific people from search queries. So it's not just that searching for "Tiananmen Square" wouldn't give any useful results, but it'd also let the Big Brother know who was inappropriately curious. Combine this with their upcoming social credit system, and you can easily see how this is proactively helping build an au…