Earlier quoted context omitted.
A good first step would be to eliminate separate security lines for First Class/VIP and everyone else. I suspect security lines would end up being shorter if our elected officials had to go through exactly the same process as the rest of us.
As a hack, just go through the first class line regardless of the class you're flying in. I know several people who do this, and none have been questioned about it. The obvious response is: "Why should paying the airline more money get people better treatment from the Federal government?".
EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
51–60 of 91 posts
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#52I want the airlines to pay attention to what I'm about to say: Until these electronic strip search machines are taken out, I will NEVER fly again. I've done nothing wrong and I will not tolerate being treated like a criminal simply because you think you can get away with it.
With all due respect, if you want the airlines to listen to you, you should say it to them , not HN.
Given the recent comments by air industry bigshots in the UK, it appears that they're starting to get the point, too.
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#53I want the airlines to pay attention to what I'm about to say: Until these electronic strip search machines are taken out, I will NEVER fly again. I've done nothing wrong and I will not tolerate being treated like a criminal simply because you think you can get away with it.
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#54Rights, like a muscle, must be exercised. However, I feel entering a country which I'm not a citizen of (like the US), is a privilege, not a right. Thus, they can ask anything of me they want..and I can chose not to enter the country.
Note that (unless otherwise worded) the Constitution's "protections" are actually restrictions on the government, and apply everywhere and always to government agents acting under constitutional authority. As such, the nationality of the those with whom the government interacts is irrelevant. I imagine that you can opt-out of the electronic strip search, just as US citizens can. An interesting, though sadly irrelevan…
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#55Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#56From my experience full body scanners are much faster and more convenient compared to traditional system when you take off your shoes and go through metal detector. If you are unlucky an airport worker additionally scans you with a hand metal scanner. With full body scanner you just enter the cabin and voila! The scan takes 3 seconds.
At SFO, my only experience with them, one still has to doff ones shoes, and walk through a metal detector. As such, the only choice you get is between a firm pat-down or an electronic strip search. I choose the former. It annoys them and I get to make at least one TSA agent uncomfortable.
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#57As an Non-American, While reading the article, I got the vibe, that the ideology at the TSA security check is, Unless proven otherwise, everyone is a terrorist (criminal) IANAL, but where does US constitution/judicatory stand on it?
The Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of "administrative searches", which aren't targeted, don't require a warrant, don't require individual suspicion, and which are used to protect public safety and not to conduct criminal investigations.
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#58The first thing you have to understand here is that the constitutionality of airport searches isn't in question. SCOTUS has upheld a doctrine of "administrative searches", taken in order to advance public safety rather than criminal investigations, which are explicitly intended to apply universally, without a warrant, and without individualized suspicion.
The second bit of background you should have is 49 USC 44925, which mandates that the TSA research and deploy advanced screening technology, specifically to detect nonmetallic objects. I'm no lawyer, but I do enjoy reading SCOTUS civil liberties opinions, and by and large the court seems to give deference to the legislature when no clear constitutional issue is at stake. In sum: the court has an "out" here, which is "the intent to search passengers is already constitutional, so if this variant of the search is so bad, pass a law".
The Supreme Court has not outlawed strip searches (obviously they can't, as virtually everyone who gets arrested and booked is strip searched, guilty or not). If you read the Savana Redding opinion (8-1 "it's unconstitutional to strip search an 8th grade girl for ibuprofen"), you'll see things like "Its indignity does not outlaw the search, but it does implicate the rule that "the search [be] ‘reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place.’". That is, unfortunately, not a hard case for TSA to make. The fact that the Savana search was for "nondangerous contraband" also factored into the opinion.
(If you want to throw up in your mouth a little bit, track down Clarence Thomas' dissent which argued that it is indeed constitutional to strip search a 13 year old girl in school to track down Advil.)
Finally, the arguments EPIC makes here do not seem awesome. Part of their argument turns on administrative rulemaking procedures at TSA, which TSA seems to dismantle efficiently in their response. Other parts drag in things like the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which is (a) a longshot argument for petitioners who can claim no personal religions infringed on and (b) is neatly sidestepped by the TSA "opt-out" rule. Speaking of opt-out: EPIC claims that there is no effective opt-out procedure, which is also a hard argument to defend without an example of someone refused an opt-out. And on this janky scaffold of arguments, EPIC wants an emergency injunction against the scanners?
Don't get me wrong, I'm obviously in their corner on this. I'm thrilled if they win. And they've got some painful evidence, such as FOIA docs showing TSA required machines with store/transmit capabilities (oops!). But my guess is that if we want to get rid of the strip search machines, we're going to have to do it by voting out the people who approved them.
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Supreme Court has upheld the constitutionality of "administrative searches", which aren't targeted, don't require a warrant, don't require individual suspicion, and which are used to protect public safety and not to conduct criminal investigations.
IANAL, but I believe this also allows the cops to set up random DUI roadblocks (ie, untargeted, no warrant, no individual suspicion, public good, etc).
For slightly more context, note that there is a scheme of "primary" and "secondary" moving violations, which is why technically you're not supposed to be able to get pulled over for not having your seatbelt on.
Mostly what they're doing at those checkpoints is racking up compliance tickets, which is obviously a load of BS.
Fortunately, this is a problem easily addressed by technology.
Re: EPIC Lawsuit to Suspend Deployment of Body Scanners at US Airports
#60Why didn't they add some kind of protection act for children to this lawsuit as well? They are making children go through these things and then showing them naked to who knows? That violation should surpass the far more vague "religious freedom".
Can both sides play the "think of the children" card in the same fight?
What does bother me is how every time there's a sensational incident -- a terrorist attack, or someone getting kidnapped, or whatever -- people start screaming for someone in the government to DO SOMETHING!!1, and we end up spending an inordinate amount of time and resources guarding against something that happened once and isn't too likely to happen again. Smart terrorists would stay the hell away from airports; they'd get a higher marginal return on their efforts if they went for easier targets like sports stadiums or crowded subways. And if that starts happening, what are we going to do? Put backscatter machines and security guards everywhere? Completely sacrifice all privacy to assuage our fears about the most unlikely events, while neglecting the real killers, like car crashes and cancer?
So to hell with it. Go ahead and make me remove my shoes at the airport and strike a ridiculous pose in a backscatter machine; I'll just laugh it off. What worries me is the preposterous irrationality, and where it'll lead if we give it free rein for long enough. Won't somebody please think of the children?