German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#121

Post by HumanDrivenDev » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #115

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think the quality of life wouldn't deteriorate rapidly if this was the case? Or is that not your concern? Or would it not effect your area, so you don't care? I think it's utopian to believe that this would lead to anything but slums and shanty towns. People with no wealth will all flock to areas with wealth, which won't have the infrastructure to support them. They'd camp out wherever they could wit…

It's certainly not ethically sound to lock out people from poor countries just because you don't want them to be poor nearby.

Under your model people would just end up building huge gated-communities anyway - it would all be private property, so wouldn't violate any of your laws.

People will find a way to keep people they don't want near by away from them.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#122

Post by HumanDrivenDev » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #118

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you not then essentially arguing that states have no sovereignty? If so, how far do you take it - do individuals? Can any migrant - legal or not - rock up to your house and start camping on your lawn?

What do have against somebody camping on your lawn?

Let's take it further - should an any person on earth be able to sleep in your bed?

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#123

Post by mamon » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:13 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #11

FigBug wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was expecting when I drove between Switzerland-Italy in 2016. Except I was stopped, told to park, had my passport examined with with a loupe, and then was sent on my way. Are the borders back to normal now?

A few countries have started to introduce this recently due to paranoia around Syrian refugees. It's extremely controversial, as it basically nullifies Schengen, but countries are apparently allowed by the agreement to put these spot checks in place (provided some political procedures) up to 20 out of every 60 days.

>> paranoia around Syrian refugees.

99% of them are not refugees,

99% of them are not Syrian,

most of them have fake IDs or no ID at all

Many of them are criminals or even terrorists

There's nothing paranoid about trying to impose basic security measures in such situation, such as a border control.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#124

Post by trishmapow2 » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #76

Forge36 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you speak German? Would you mind translating parts? I can give it a go, however my German skills aren't great.

The Google translate is quite readable.

Just a tip for anyone passing by, [Deepl](https://www.deepl.com/translator) is miles ahead of Google Translate in terms of accurate/natural translations.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#125

Post by lucideer » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #123

lucideer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few countries have started to introduce this recently due to paranoia around Syrian refugees. It's extremely controversial, as it basically nullifies Schengen, but countries are apparently allowed by the agreement to put these spot checks in place (provided some political procedures) up to 20 out of every 60 days.

>> paranoia around Syrian refugees. 99% of them are not refugees, 99% of them are not Syrian, most of them have fake IDs or no ID at all Many of them are criminals or even terrorists There's nothing paranoid about trying to impose basic security measures in such situation, such as a border control.

Do you have sources for this info?

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#126

Post by azernik » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:21 PM UTC

incompatible wrote: post #114

gammateam wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The german entry for Büsingen is MUCH more detailed https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Büsingen_am_Hochrhein This really frustrates me about Wikipedia because its like a totally parallel site and experience thats just right there and can even have conflicting information. Not helping the world as much as we think, but its so close to being able to.

I've occasionally wanted to translate some material from another Wikipedia, in a language I can read, into English. But the referencing in that Wikipedia is often quite bad, so I wouldn't be able to reference it properly in the English Wikipedia. Finding and interpreting good sources then starts to look like a major research project.

And often (I'm looking at you, Hebrew Wikipedia) - the rules for sourcing aren't the same in the first place.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#127

Post by anvandare » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:22 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #84

lagadu wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's there to resolve if it works perfectly fine as it is?

Don't know, simpler borders are easier to maintain?

As it happens, Belgium and the Netherlands recently changed (a small part of) the border for exactly that reason:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/30/belgium-and-th...

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#128

Post by lucideer » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:28 PM UTC

HumanDrivenDev wrote: post #122

trhway wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do have against somebody camping on your lawn?

Let's take it further - should an any person on earth be able to sleep in your bed?

Let's take it further:

1. if any person on earth could sleep in their bed, would they want to?

2. if they do want to, what circumstance are they in that that's something they would want?

i.e. if everyone has their own bed, why take yours

Obviously I'm simplifying and referring to an impossible utopia here, but the sentiment stands regardless. The point is, once you're taking it that far, both sides are absurd.

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#129

Post by leroy_masochist » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:30 PM UTC

Coming soon to Netflix, from the team that brought you "The Tunnel"...."The Bike Path".

Re: German exclaves in Belgium separated by a bicycle path from the rest of Germany

#130

Post by azernik » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

anticensor wrote: post #85

randallsquared wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part, the US "states" stopped being states in the political sense when the Articles were replaced by the Constitution, and deliberately so.

Which Articles? Non-US reader here.

For more than a Wikipedia link:

The War of American Independence was fought by use of voluntary contributions from the individual states, which were more or less sovereign. From around 1781, this arrangement functioned under a loose confederation with similar or lesser power to the modern EU; its constitution was called the Articles of Confederation.

It took until 1788/9 for the current Constitution to be adopted, after the Articles proved unable to cope with:

1. Payment of wartime debt, since the states' contributions to the federal budget were entirely voluntary.

2. Security threats, such as the looming British, or an unpaid veterans' (see point 1) rebellion in Massachusetts.

3. Foreign policy obligations, as the confederation couldn't enforce the terms of the 1783 peace treaty on the states.