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China’s Economy Slows Sharply

nytimes.com

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Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#241

Post by giardini »

sct202 wrote: post #61
landryraccoon wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can fake stats sure, but can you fake the fact that everything sold in an Apple store and half the stuff on Amazon or Walmart is made in China now?

Plus we have a pretty good gauge of trillions of $ of stuff that goes into China and trillions of $ of stuff that comes out that is not the same. Like really people, China is probably faking some stats, but they're clearly rich and making a ton of money and stuff.

Yes but will China ever make a decent pair of pliers or crescent wrench for export? So far the answer is "No!". We've been inundated with one-time-use tool fluff/cruft for a decade now with no sign of it letting up. Good thing we're raising tariffs.

In contrast, Taiwan-made tools are excellent, on a par with USA-made and European tools. Too bad Taiwan is caught up in the tariffs. But I always look for the "made in Taiwan" label anyway. If its present then I know it will work well. And older tools from Taiwan on eBay are good too.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#242

Post by Emma_Goldman »

repolfx wrote: post #233
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That all sounds like a much more traumatic modern history than China's." That is so far off the mark. China was turned into a tributary state by the Western powers. It was repeatedly - successfully - invaded by Japan. Tens of millions died in the fires of civil war and revolution. It industrialised within a span of 50 years. It was hit successively by waves of nationalism, communism, and capitalism in a single centu…

I guess my point wasn't specific to the UK, but rather that quite a few countries have had dramatic and society-redefining events happen to them without experiencing a large number of revolutions as a consequence. So we can't say that China's revolutionary past is an obvious consequence of anything in particular that happened to it. With respect to which country has had more drama in the 20th century, I'm not sure th…

"Quite a few countries have had dramatic and society-redefining events happen to them without experiencing a large number of revolutions as a consequence. So we can't say that China's revolutionary past is an obvious consequence of anything in particular that happened to it."

This argument is obviously fallacious.

It does not follow from the fact that lots of societies (L) have had X happen to them that no number or combination or tempo of X's can have an effect that was not present in L.

I'm not sure if the proposition that we can't ascribe China's revolutionary past to 'anything in particular that happened to it' is even coherent. How else do you think historical change takes place? From nothing?

"The UK had to go to the IMF for a bailout."

It's now historical consensus that the UK didn't have to do this at all. It was based on a miscalculation of the UK account (not that the economy wasn't in dire straits).

"The crisis of the 1970s wasn't "general to the west".

It was, for at least three reasons: (i) the collapse of the Bretton Woods system and the beginning of dollar seigniorage; (ii) the OPEC crisis in 1973; (iii) and the emergence of widespread stagflation in 1973-1975.

"The cause was pretty clearly and directly militant socialism - once Thatcher got the unions under control and liberalised the economy, the UK caught up with its erstwhile foe and was no longer the 'sick man of Europe'."

I'm not going to get into this, because it's a rabbit hole. But that is clearly a highly simplified and ideologically charged perspective. I would mention that the rate of growth under post-war social democratic Keynesianism was higher than under Thatcherism and her epigones. I would recommend the work of David Edgerton, probably the foremost scholar of British economic history in the twentieth century - whose work reveals a quite different story to your own.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#243

Post by DeonPenny »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #128
nosleeptill wrote: post #28

Having done business in China, and having friends still in China, as one of them put it, "China has more problems than you can count." China is really a complex house of cards, it looks more foreboding than it actually is in reality. The second the economy slows the consumers hide, and go back to stuffing cash into their mattresses. I think Trump is a fool, but in the case of China I think we need a fool. Trump belie…

We've needed someone to push back against China for some time now. I just wish it had been in consultation with our allies instead of flipping the middle finger to all of them at the same time.

This summed up my thoughts exactly. It needed to be done but it would have been more well done by literally anyone else.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#244

Post by DeonPenny »

singularity2001 wrote: post #208
gerdesj wrote: post #115

"China’s economy has slowed sharply in recent months, presenting perhaps the biggest challenge to its top leader, Xi Jinping, in his six years of rule." Note the word: rule.

what is so note-worthy about that?

It's that he became the leader for life. So because there's no term rule is the better wording.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#245

Post by franknine »

tanilama wrote: post #74
malloryerik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rebalancing the domestic economy toward greater household income is necessary to provide sustained growth in China, and that's what Michael Pettis argues in your link to his blog. Make no mistake though, the national and Party leadership is deathly afraid of low growth and it is exactly what they seek to avoid. The leadership knows they must create domestic consumer demand and that this must happen through an increas…

Then they shouldn't hype up the real estate price so much, it is draining the domestic consumers dry.

It's a traditional Chinese mindset that people should own land properties or houses. A man who does not own a house would be deemed not worth marrying, thus making overhyping real estate price possible since some people would take it anyway.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#246

Post by yesforwhat »

mruniverse wrote: post #130
henrikschroder wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, the British brought a lot of things with them to India as well, infrastructure, medicine, industry, language. All these things benefit Indians living today, and many millions of Indians living today wouldn't be alive if the course of history hadn't been changed. How do you put a value on that? Also, many Indians were killed resisting the colonial invasion, and their descendants are not living today as a res…

You can start the negotiations. If things are ridiculous, bring them back to earth.

"Your grandfather's grandfather owes me money"

Where do you go from there, exactly?

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#247

Post by yesforwhat »

henrikschroder wrote: post #125
mc32 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, had the Romans not invaded and expanded, much of the Mediterranean and the rest of Europe would have remained 'barbarian' for quite a while. They arguably brought civilization with them into the far-reaches of Europe (obviously at a great toll to the local populations)..

Arguably, the British brought a lot of things with them to India as well, infrastructure, medicine, industry, language. All these things benefit Indians living today, and many millions of Indians living today wouldn't be alive if the course of history hadn't been changed. How do you put a value on that? Also, many Indians were killed resisting the colonial invasion, and their descendants are not living today as a res…

> Arguably, the British brought a lot of things with them to India as well, infrastructure, medicine, industry, language. All these things benefit Indians living today, and many millions of Indians living today wouldn't be alive if the course of history hadn't been changed.

India's share of the world economy went from 24.4% in 1700 to 4.2% in 1950. India's GDP (PPP) per capita was stagnant during the Mughal Empire and began to decline prior to the onset of British rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_India_under_the_Bri...

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#248

Post by yesforwhat »

keepsimple wrote: post #156

As a Chinese grew up in China and have been living in US in recent years, I am already used to how US media reports about China. The bottom line: I have not seen _any_ US media reporting China truthfully. NPR is usually the worst, but others not much better. What happens is that, because of untruthful reporting in US media, people in US does not know or understand what's going on in China. It seems a miracle that suc…

> The only real problem China is facing is its political system, not its economy.

This how thread is about how that is changing. Also, most don't think politics and economics are separate.

> I have not seen _any_ US media reporting China truthfully

What are they getting wrong?

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#249

Post by yesforwhat »

ardy42 wrote: post #170
keepsimple wrote: post #156

As a Chinese grew up in China and have been living in US in recent years, I am already used to how US media reports about China. The bottom line: I have not seen _any_ US media reporting China truthfully. NPR is usually the worst, but others not much better. What happens is that, because of untruthful reporting in US media, people in US does not know or understand what's going on in China. It seems a miracle that suc…

> What happens is that, because of untruthful reporting in US media, people in US does not know or understand what's going on in China. So, in your view: 1. what's the real story about what's going on in China that's being missed in "untruthful" articles like this, and 2. who's reporting that story "truthfully"?

I also would like to hear answers to these questions, but I suspect OP is another ethno-nationalist that perceives grievance against them for any and all actions.

The number one take away I have from interactions with all too many Chinese nationals, unfortunately.

Re: China’s Economy Slows Sharply

#250

Post by yesforwhat »

dionian wrote: post #176
keepsimple wrote: post #156

As a Chinese grew up in China and have been living in US in recent years, I am already used to how US media reports about China. The bottom line: I have not seen _any_ US media reporting China truthfully. NPR is usually the worst, but others not much better. What happens is that, because of untruthful reporting in US media, people in US does not know or understand what's going on in China. It seems a miracle that suc…

Democracy isnt required for prosperity, as China has shown. Prosperity doesn't give you freedom though.

Autocracies don't last as governments, not forever.
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