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Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

bloomberg.com

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Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#101

Post by throwaway98434 »

iscrewyou wrote: post #17
throwaway98434 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Most people have significantly more than $86k debt in the form of a mortgage. I owe a lot more than $86k on the mortgage for my home. I have more assets than debt and I could pay off my mortgage but it's simply not the best way for me to spend my capital. Additionally, I suspect this article is using a median value for "average income" but a mean value for "average debt." This paints a misleading picture.

So, speaking in terms of net value, you don’t have debt.

This article isn't about net value. "The world" does not have $86k of net debt per person. That would be a mathematical impossibility.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#102

Post by EpicEng »

vernie wrote: post #65
EpicEng wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hyper inflation is your solution?

You can tell it's bad because of the "hyper"

It's "hyper" because it's "big and fast". Do you honestly believe that printing money to pay of all private citizen debt is a solution to anything?

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#103

Post by hopler »

joobus wrote: post #43
aurailious wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone actually still believe that these debts will all someday be repayed? I don't understand why you would ask this question. On the individual level its obvious that some debts won't be. It happens all the time for a lot of reasons. So I assume you aren't talking about the individual level. But on the macro level zero debt is a very bad idea and unless civilization collapses there will always be debt. Debt…

This reads like a person with Stockholm syndrome, captured by the Federal Reserve system. Money/currency does not have to be debt based. For a lot of America's history, it was not debt based.

Debt is older than money. Debt created money. You don't need a Federal Reserve to create money, you can make it yourself.

If I do work for you, and you can't pay, and you give me an "IOU", that is debt, and if I agree to make that IOU transferable that that is money.

The Federal Reserve system is simply one specific kind of money that is only special because the US government accepts it for tax payments and certain other kinds of money at illegal.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#105

Post by nikanj »

bb2018 wrote: post #62
coldtea wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Debt allows people to own homes and cars and pay for education and invest in business. Debt means you are optimistic about the future. How about having homes and cars and education without debt? It's not like you need to be in debt to another and to steal from your feature to have nice things...

I honestly do not understand this perspective and would like to be enlightened. The only way a young person could be given a house without owing any debt would be if someone else bought it for them or if the government paid workers to build houses for everyone. However, if the government paid people to build houses without any payments in return the government would be collected the debt which it would then hold. Thi…

Previous generations bought homes in early 20s, and paid off their mortgages in 7-10 years, so by their mid-30s their housing expenses were rather low. And inflation helped with the payments too.

Our generation gets 25-year mortgages, and very little help from inflation.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#106

Post by throwaway98434 »

bb2018 wrote: post #31
throwaway98434 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Most people have significantly more than $86k debt in the form of a mortgage. I owe a lot more than $86k on the mortgage for my home. I have more assets than debt and I could pay off my mortgage but it's simply not the best way for me to spend my capital. Additionally, I suspect this article is using a median value for "average income" but a mean value for "average debt." This paints a misleading picture.

First, even if you couldn't pay off your mortgage today that doesn't mean you would be in a bad position at all. If you had enough to contribute 50k a year (plus job increases) and had 500k left on a house you would be in great shape. You would be happy to have the debt and the entity issuing you the debt would be happy to be repaid. Second, while it is useful to think of debts in terms of things like mortgages and a…

I'm glad you agree that debt isn't necessarily bad.

The anecdote about secured mortgage debt might apply equally well to government debt. Most debt is serviceable.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#108

Post by intralizee »

EpicEng wrote: post #102
vernie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can tell it's bad because of the "hyper"

It's "hyper" because it's "big and fast". Do you honestly believe that printing money to pay of all private citizen debt is a solution to anything?

I think it’s better than continuing to exploit the underprivileged. The persons who were either in one of the categories: uneducated, unfortunate, desperate, deluded/ill, or whatever it may be to how they didn’t have the variables & events needed to succeed compared to the ones that did. Add a forgiveness plan with some financial health classes and the community health will improve or the system is inherently socially poor and needs to adapt for persons who are destined to fail with the system that favors others unfairly.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#109

Post by mamcx »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #46
ctdonath wrote: post #21

There's a reason ancient Judaism included a "Year of Jubilee", where all debts were forgiven every 50 years.

If all debt was forgiven every 50 years, why would any lender lend money with a term going past the year before the jubilee?

Well, in part the ideas was not get into big debts. People could self-sustain much more easily in the past. No need to buy iPhone each year help on that.

Is important to note that the jubilee was a measure against the worst case scenarios: Persons that sell themselves as slaves (or sons of slaves), people that lost the hereditary land and things like that.

This also means the society was based around this expectations.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#110

Post by thatoneuser »

aurailious wrote: post #95
coldtea wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Debt allows people to own homes and cars and pay for education and invest in business. Debt means you are optimistic about the future. How about having homes and cars and education without debt? It's not like you need to be in debt to another and to steal from your feature to have nice things...

Using debt for homes, cars, education, and investments are generally assumed to be able to out grow the costs of that borrowing. For example, ideally a better education now means you can probably make more money over time, offsetting those costs and overall ending up much better than without borrowing. Its not stealing, to phrase like that is wrong. If you only see these things as "nice", your should reevaluate what…

Personally I think we view education entirely too much as an individual responsibility. The worker isn’t the only one who benefits from the education. Companies, investors and society at large does too. So to push that cost entirely onto the individual and force a possible lifetime of debt is unreasonable. And that’s only possible because of debt.

Housing and cars - I’d agree. But for me the problem with debt is it seems like a ploy to squeeze more and more out of people who don’t realize the deal, or who because of encroaching levels of debt don’t have a choice in society.

If debt were purely opt in and people could simply not get into it while still having a first world life then I wouldn’t disagree with you at all. But as it stands debt is a requirement that permanently endentures far too many of our citizens.

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