Live data from Hacker News

Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

bloomberg.com

31–40 of 287 posts

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#31
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think many think articles like this intentionally make the numbers seem as scary as possible. Negative currency (debt) is a good thing for most people. It is what enables people to buy cars and houses or go to college. Of course, many individuals will get in over their head but on the whole it is a positive thing that individuals can take out mortgage and owe more on the house than they put down. The same goes for…

Exactly. Most people have significantly more than $86k debt in the form of a mortgage. I owe a lot more than $86k on the mortgage for my home. I have more assets than debt and I could pay off my mortgage but it's simply not the best way for me to spend my capital. Additionally, I suspect this article is using a median value for "average income" but a mean value for "average debt." This paints a misleading picture.

First, even if you couldn't pay off your mortgage today that doesn't mean you would be in a bad position at all. If you had enough to contribute 50k a year (plus job increases) and had 500k left on a house you would be in great shape. You would be happy to have the debt and the entity issuing you the debt would be happy to be repaid.

Second, while it is useful to think of debts in terms of things like mortgages and auto loans, most of this global debt is government debt. Think locally - your local town may need 50 million dollars to build a new school. They aren't increasing taxes for one year to build the school they instead take on 50 million dollars of debt in the form of bonds. So even if you have no personal debt you still have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt which the government has taken out which can reasonably be repaid overtime.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#32
post #2

Does anyone actually still believe that these debts will all someday be repayed? Does anyone even believe that the amount of debt will go down, rather than up, over the course of any length of time? Even a day? I don't, which raises the question: how does a world where debt monotonically increases indefinitely work? Can that happen forever, in which case debt has just become a standin for currency (that allows people…

At some point a jubilee will happen.

Inflation (depending on the type and extent) can be a form of slow motion jubilee

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#34
post #2

Does anyone actually still believe that these debts will all someday be repayed? Does anyone even believe that the amount of debt will go down, rather than up, over the course of any length of time? Even a day? I don't, which raises the question: how does a world where debt monotonically increases indefinitely work? Can that happen forever, in which case debt has just become a standin for currency (that allows people…

At some point a jubilee will happen.

As I recall, there are few states which have never had an incidence of sovereign default.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#35
post #4
post #2

Does anyone actually still believe that these debts will all someday be repayed? Does anyone even believe that the amount of debt will go down, rather than up, over the course of any length of time? Even a day? I don't, which raises the question: how does a world where debt monotonically increases indefinitely work? Can that happen forever, in which case debt has just become a standin for currency (that allows people…

I'm excited to see how all kinds of things unfold in the next 50 years. Supposedly max human population, running out of oil, icecaps melting, unsustainable amount of food production, dying ecosystems. The economy seems like the least troubling really as it is all superficial anyway.

The climate and economy are the only real concerns. Human population, energy, and food production are on a good track getting better.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#36
post #2

Does anyone actually still believe that these debts will all someday be repayed? Does anyone even believe that the amount of debt will go down, rather than up, over the course of any length of time? Even a day? I don't, which raises the question: how does a world where debt monotonically increases indefinitely work? Can that happen forever, in which case debt has just become a standin for currency (that allows people…

No.

Good news is that it's not "real." It's numbers in a database. The stuff, knowledge, and experience that we have is real.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#39
post #2

Does anyone actually still believe that these debts will all someday be repayed? Does anyone even believe that the amount of debt will go down, rather than up, over the course of any length of time? Even a day? I don't, which raises the question: how does a world where debt monotonically increases indefinitely work? Can that happen forever, in which case debt has just become a standin for currency (that allows people…

Money is abstract labour. Debt is promised future labour. An individual cannot become wealthy in currency that retains meaningful value without others piling up implied debts. If you have saved money but no else has debt you can't compel anyone to work in exchange for your saved money. Debt is inherent to currency.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Most people have significantly more than $86k debt in the form of a mortgage. I owe a lot more than $86k on the mortgage for my home. I have more assets than debt and I could pay off my mortgage but it's simply not the best way for me to spend my capital. Additionally, I suspect this article is using a median value for "average income" but a mean value for "average debt." This paints a misleading picture.

So, speaking in terms of net value, you don’t have debt.

That's obviously not the angle this article takes though. Obviously there is more than enough assets to cover worldwide debt and one only goes into debt to obtain something of value. The context here is debt on paper excluding assets.
Post reply on HN