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Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

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Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#121

Post by koreyb »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #118
koreyb wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GM lost $3.9bn last year. There is a reason GM, Audi, Daimler etc are shifting to electric vehicles.

As I said, everyone has plans but the market is quite small for the big companies to move. GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense. They'll keep their design fresh and up to date to be ready when the time comes, but so far it's territory of s…

As I said, there is a reason they are all switching to EVs.

The Tesla Model S, in its main US market, is the leader in the luxury car market. Model 3 is the #1 selling car by revenue.

Production is limited to 2 US factories. Worldwide numbers go up fast when they have a Euro factory, Chinese factory, etc.

> GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense.

And yet they are doing it.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#122

Post by kamarg »

chrisseaton wrote: post #59
adwn wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you can also leave for any reason. It's symmetrical. You don't have this right in some countries - I'd be careful about volunteering to give it up. False dilemma [1]. There's no reason to assume that by giving up at-will employment, you'll also lose the right to resign for any reason. In fact, there are lots of countries where you can resign for any reason, but can't be fired for every reason. [1] https://en.wi…

The person I was replying to said 'at-will employment laws ... I just don't get how we just can't over turn them.' The law is both parts of it. You probably wouldn't want to overturn the law, because you'd overturn your protection as well.

At least in the states near me that have tried (unsuccessfully ) to pass at will laws, no part of the law that I saw would have taken away employees rights to resign at anytime they wanted for any reason. Is this actually part of at will laws else where?

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#123

Post by taneq »

InitialLastName wrote: post #40
wpietri wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be amazed if it were sustainable for even that long. My recollection is that it's a couple of weeks before productivity ends up back where it would be if you were just working reasonable hours. And then you rapidly descend into less and less productive states. (There used to be a great presentation with linked research about this here [1], but their website seems shaky.) I think it's an especially bad idea at…

> If a line worker makes a mistake, they will hopefully catch that within hours. > If an executive makes a mistake, it can be months or years before the problem is obvious To finish the parable: If an engineer makes a mistake, it might not be noticed until users start to die while operating the product.

To be fair, very very few engineers are in a position where a mistake would result in sudden unexpected lethality. Usually it's more like "if an engineer makes a mistake, something breaks and a lot of money is wasted, or everything is overengineered and a a lot of money is wasted."

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#124

Post by baldfat »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #90
baldfat wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And as soon as anyone mentions unions Can we make it mandatory for everyone that is anti-Union to have to report to work on Labor Day and also they need to work the previous Saturday since it was normally a six day work week before Unions? I still don't understand American working force's love affair with the filthy rich individuals and corporations. I am constantly told, "This is just how economy works" from my Fa…

Don't forget that the filthy rich waged literal wars using hired thugs armed with guns against unions and their leaders around the turn of the century. There's precious little mention of this in history lessons.

Local story for me on how bad the Labor Unions fight was with Police doing the bidding of the companies in 1910.

Bethlehem Steel had a strike, 9,000 workers complaining about the 12 hour work days and the unsafe work conditions. A policeman shot and killed union striker Joseph Szambo while he was drinking a beer and his wife gave birth to their child a few hours later. This caused Congress to get involved and to actually make Bethlehem Steel change their practices and the Labor Union won. http://bethlehem.thelehighvalleypress.com/2012/09/12/bethleh...

Now fast forward to the 1980s and Bethlehem Steel wasted millions in tax dollars on building a huge corporate office and didn't redo their old steel works and had to go out of business. People like to blame the Union but it was Corporate waste of resources that was the demise of the company. https://www.mcall.com/opinion/white/mc-bw-bethlehem-steel-pl...

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#125

Post by Nasrudith »

gilrain wrote: post #84
dgut wrote: post #66

People like Musk are necessary. You can't create great things without a mind outside of the norm, and a mind outside of the norm is often unstable. Most people wouldn't manage (psychologically) to be in Musk's position, much less get to the point where he is now. It isn't fair (what happened to this engineer), but hardly anything in life is fair. What's important is to realize this and be able to move on. As an engin…

There are several billion people on this planet. If we push out the asshole savants, then there will be room for the respectful savants who have been there all along. There are too many well-educated, compassionate, clever people out there for “nobody else can do it but this specific abusive asshole” to stand up as an argument.

What is stopping the non-asshole savants from succeeding now? Would a lack of competition improve things further? And of course who decides who is an asshole and making sure they aren't the biggest one of all.

Also one is dealing with far ends of the bell curve by definition - there may not be a replacement with every desired trait. Overfiltering on the irrelevant is the action of literal historical losers like trying "German Physics" or Lysenkoism instead of Bourgeoisie genetics.

Not to mention there are plenty of non-savant assholes in charge - if we want to get rid off assholes wouldn't it make sense to oust the savants last as they have actual utility above the norm?

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#126

Post by LoSboccacc »

koreyb wrote: post #121
LoSboccacc wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, everyone has plans but the market is quite small for the big companies to move. GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense. They'll keep their design fresh and up to date to be ready when the time comes, but so far it's territory of s…

As I said, there is a reason they are all switching to EVs. The Tesla Model S, in its main US market, is the leader in the luxury car market. Model 3 is the #1 selling car by revenue. Production is limited to 2 US factories. Worldwide numbers go up fast when they have a Euro factory, Chinese factory, etc. > GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving ju…

> And yet they are doing it.

Yes that why they killed the volt

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#127

Post by mixmastamyk »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #98
api wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport. I remember years ago reading article after article and forum post after forum post about how once we finally deplete oil transportation will revert to the 19th century. I don't read that anymore. I have little doubt that without Tesla you wouldn't see a dozen other EVs on the market. You might have one or two crappy "compliance cars," but nobody else would…

> yet Tesla pushed the entire world to electrify transport Oil prices, pollution laws and incentives did, Tesla was the only one in position to profit for it timely Every company has an electric car in their blueprints, Tesla is the right size to benefit for the small demand that the market created on its own They turned a hundred million so profit this year right? That's not even enough to consider ending the market…

Reminds me of "the Innovator's Dilemma." Established companies are not able take advantage of lower profit margins, but growing ones are.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#128

Post by koreyb »

koreyb wrote: post #121
LoSboccacc wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said, everyone has plans but the market is quite small for the big companies to move. GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving just one million units or so competing with players like Tesla that operate at almost a loss make zero sense. They'll keep their design fresh and up to date to be ready when the time comes, but so far it's territory of s…

As I said, there is a reason they are all switching to EVs. The Tesla Model S, in its main US market, is the leader in the luxury car market. Model 3 is the #1 selling car by revenue. Production is limited to 2 US factories. Worldwide numbers go up fast when they have a Euro factory, Chinese factory, etc. > GM turned a loss selling nine million vehicles or so, opening a whole line to enter a market which is moving ju…

Volt is a hybrid. They are increasing production of their EV Bolt. And plan on 20 new all-electric vehicles globally by 2023.

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#129

Post by karlmcguire »

eduah wrote: post #55
mhermher wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't actually spend all his time at the factory. He's mostly in LA. There are people on Twitter who track the flights of his private jet. He's mostly in LA, he'll go to the bay area maybe for a day a week. More rarely to Reno. If he's spending all his time working, it's at SpaceX of anything. But more likely he spends his time at home searching his own name on Twitter. The insane work hours stories are just par…

I find it interesting you can read this negative article about him and choose to believe the bad things, but dismiss the parts you think some might consider a positive

Probably shorting TSLA...

Re: Dr. Elon and Mr. Musk: Life Inside Tesla's Production Hell

#130

Post by matz1 »

baldfat wrote: post #16
dkersten wrote: post #5

Yay for at-will employment laws... :-( > Over the previous year, he had been living out of a suitcase, putting in 13-hour days, seven days a week. This story is a good reminder not to do this. The company will usually not return the favour, you rarely get properly rewarded for crazy hours, yet it has a major impact on your health (both mental and physical) in the long run. Not worth it. > It was not a 9 to 5 company.…

> at-will employment laws I just don't get how we just can't over turn them politically state by state in State Elections. How is this not a thing? I live in an At Will State (PA) and it pretty much sucks to have the knowledge I can be fired for any reason and sure I still can sue but I can still lose even though I am 100% in the right.

Likewise because its sucks if I can't fire my employee for any reason.
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