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China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

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Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#31

Post by ArchTypical »

a-nikolaev wrote: post #15

The word "substantial" is very vague and a bad sign for any scientific and evidence-based publication. Then, when such news show up while Trump is trying to make his deal with the Chinese and (it seems) even got a hostage recently, this makes me feel a bit suspicious of this article, especially since its content is pay-walled. (I'm not defending organ-harvesting, which was already reported in the past, but the articl…

> The word "substantial" is very vague and a bad sign for any scientific and evidence-based publication.

That's true. Have an upvote. There are some troubling stats that can be pulled up in regard to transplant stats:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

Admittedly, it's a little backhanded to complain about the accuracy of statistics that are intentionally withheld by a totalitarian dystopian regime.

Downvoted, but relevant all the same: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18611084

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#32

Post by sonnyblarney »

Interning millions of people on the basis of their ethnicity/religion, and then harvesting their organs ... now where have we heard this one before?

I won't make the direct comparison because it'd normally seem hyperbolic in 2018 ... but this is happening in 2018.

If this is true, it has to change the narrative quite firmly.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#33

Post by vkou »

topkai22 wrote: post #28
toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. What is the solution? Economic sanctions (I'd argue yes)? UN resolutions? (Useless) Boots on the ground? (Physical force, while preferably a last resort, is always an option). I'm starting to warm to the idea of using tariffs and other punitive measures to drag manufacturing back to US shores.

Economic Sanctions- possible, but only effective with Allies and a clear set of demands on what it takes to lift the sanctions UN Resolution- China is a veto holding member of the security council, not happening Boots on the ground- not worth it, even morally. A ground war with China will kill hundreds of thousands at a minimum.

A ground war with China will leave most of the United States a nuclear crater.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#34

Post by alehul »

When I was younger, maybe five years ago or so, I was living in Boston and I'd consistently see a pack of Chinese protestors outside the public library at Copley (very popular area) holding up signs, looking to gain attention for this very issue. They spoke to me as best as they could, handed me a pamphlet with hard-to-parse English but nonetheless gruesome descriptions, and asked for my signature along with any other help I could offer.

I was pretty skeptical that this story was as one-sided as they (along with any other protestor/activist) would represent it to be. I remember wondering what I was really signing a petition for, and hesitation in doing so.

This report fills me with regret for not feeling more empathy, as I must imagine they knew people or knew of people who this had happened to, in order to sit out there all day, so consistently. I haven't seen any of the protestors in years, despite their previous frequency-- I hope they're all well, as are their families.

Has anyone else seen this in other cities, or had other experiences with these folks in Boston?

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#35

Post by josephpmay »

pasbesoin wrote: post #13

U.S. perspective, writing this. I find this is an area where a "moral decision" is rather clear-cut. And it highlights the... "amorality", at best, of much of our relationship (whether speaking at the personal level or the state/economy level) with contemporary China. With our technology, we've enabled and empowered a political and economic structure that has not... "sorted its shit" as part of achieving same. Simult…

At first look, from a Western perspective, this is 100% clear-cut morally bad.

But I've also learned a limited amount about the Chinese moral perspective in college, and it can be a useful exercise to examine how someone who doesn't have a Judeo-Christian/Locke moral framework may view this practice.

In some ways, the harvesting of organs from political prisoners can be viewed as the trolley problem. Killing one political prisoner (an 'undesirable' in Chinese society) could save a number of lives of upstanding citizens.

The practice disgusts me personally, but I can see a reasonable argument in support of it.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#37

Post by jbigelow76 »

DannyB2 wrote: post #30
hnaccy wrote: post #8

You can't get much more dystopian or abhorrent than using a political minority as livestock.

The word 'harvested' is so much nicer than 'stolen'. That makes the 'optics' better. (i feel sick now)

Honestly, I think "harvested" is worse than "stolen". You "steal" from another person, you "harvest" a resource that has no humanity.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#38

Post by trhway »

reaperducer wrote: post #22
eric_b wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "According to the reports, political prisoners, mainly Falun Gong practitioners, are being executed "on demand" in order to provide organs to recipients." Wild... I had no idea this was going on. There are a lot of things about China that I disagree with, but this might be the worst thing I've heard so far.

Imagine how much more efficiently the Chinese government could identify involuntary donors if it had better access to people's personal information. Perhaps through a search engine of some kind. One with a harmless-sounding name. Maybe "Dragonfly" would be a good name.

especially if it has significant connection (like through common investors/execs) to a huge database of DNA.

> identify involuntary donors

err... dissidents. Highest political crime - being a 100%-match for a Central Committee member who needs liver transplant.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#39

Post by mrep »

throwawayofis wrote: post #18

China harvested organs from political prisoners on substantial scale, says tribunal Richard Hurley The BMJ Forced harvesting of organs from prisoners of conscience in China has been “substantial,” says an interim judgment of an independent “people’s tribunal” set up to determine whether the country’s transplantation practices breached international criminal law. The former English judge Geoffrey Nice QC, the tribunal…

And this right here is the exact reason the EU is pursing upload filters.

Re: China harvested organs from political prisoners, says tribunal

#40

Post by [deleted] »

vkou wrote: post #33
topkai22 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic Sanctions- possible, but only effective with Allies and a clear set of demands on what it takes to lift the sanctions UN Resolution- China is a veto holding member of the security council, not happening Boots on the ground- not worth it, even morally. A ground war with China will kill hundreds of thousands at a minimum.

A ground war with China will leave most of the United States a nuclear crater.

[deleted]
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