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Second Canadian 'missing' in China

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Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#81

Post by latch »

barry-cotter wrote: post #71
latch wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China does not have the rule of law A quick look at Wiki suggest that there's at least some aspects of rule of law in China (1) - although with some defects. I don't have the background to compare these defects with those of any other country (like the US's high incarceration rate (in general, and of minorities specifically)). I have lived a few years in China and Hong Kong and know a few lawyers and accountants bo…

The fact that you conflate Hong Kong and the PRC mainland tells quite a lot. Hong Kong had the rule of law and still has a close approximation. The mainland doesn’t. If you knew accountants in both places you doubtless know that an audit from a HK firm is held in vastly greater esteem than a Chinese one because they’re less likely to be leaned on or threatened. Did you know any business people? If you did you know ho…

Conflating them would have been "I lived in Hong Kong thus have an informed opinion about China."

I gave a link with specific examples of _experts_ saying China has rule of law but with limitations and asking someone with expertise to compare these limitations to those you find in, say, America.

All you're doing is repeating "China doesn't have rule of law." Unless you are such an expert (and you very well may be, but I have no way of knowing), don't you feel weird treating something as fact that people more informed than you disagree/debate?

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#82

Post by sonnyblarney »

RidingPegasus wrote: post #26
sonnyblarney wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What did they really expect arresting corporate dynasty?" Justice? Transparency? Rule of law? Freedom of conscience and expression? 'Doing business with Iran' is not what she was arrested for - she was arrested for proving tech made in the USA to Iran, which is definitely a different thing. Grated it was very low tech.

> Crown counsel told a Friday bail hearing in B.C. Supreme Court in Vancouver Friday that Meng is "charged with conspiracy to defraud multiple international institutions" https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bail-hearing... Do you foresee extradition requests for EU executives doing business with Iran? https://www.dw.com/en/eu-plan-to-sidestep-iran-sanctions-how...

I don't foresee extraditions merely for 'doing business with Iran' because that's not what she was extradited for.

The EU and China have been trading billions with Iran for quite a long time [1]

Meng was picked up for a business relating to shipping US tech to Iran via Hong Kong.

[1] http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/count...

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#83

Post by sonnyblarney »

0xb33fdead wrote: post #17
sonnyblarney wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What did they really expect arresting corporate dynasty?" Justice? Transparency? Rule of law? Freedom of conscience and expression? 'Doing business with Iran' is not what she was arrested for - she was arrested for proving tech made in the USA to Iran, which is definitely a different thing. Grated it was very low tech.

Okay, hold up. "grated it was very low tech"; where did you learn about this (or is this an opinionated downplay)?

The tech she exported was HP gear - I'm not aware of anything specifically that HP make that is particularly high tech.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#84

Post by sonnyblarney »

diminish wrote: post #68
monksy wrote: post #43

If this is a retaliation and they intend on continuing on this. China is going to find it's self on the bad end of travel advisories by a lot of western nations. BTW There have been videos about "tourist crackdowns" and how some of the authoritarian governments use visitors as scapegoats of bad behavior.

US has become a risky destination for ordinary business travel. I suppose business and tech conferences better take place in neutral places where rule of law prevails.

This is simply false, and the US will continue to be the #1 location for tech conferences for the foreseeable future.

The only risk to travellers is that US customs may require people to see their Facebook profiles etc. - which is bad - but nobody is getting arrested arbitrarily, and even if they were 'rule of law prevails'.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#85

Post by sonnyblarney »

lechiffre10 wrote: post #33
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the alleged crimes here are nothing in comparison Willfully violating sanctions is a serious crime.

Sanctions imposed by the U.S that hold no merit according to WTO or International law aren't even legal and are in fact considered an act of war. The only crime committed here is by the U.S.

The US sanctions limiting export of US tech to Iran have nothing to do with the WTO or 'International Law'.

Meng has apparently comitted a serious crime according to US law by exporting US-made tech to Iran.

If this is proven to be true, she's clearly violating the law, and surely knowingly so.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#86

Post by [deleted] »

sbmthakur wrote: post #72
paraditedc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this brought up quite a lot, but to me, a Chinese national, it's confusing how judiciary branch is independent. Didn't Trump nominate the supreme court justice? And isn't the nomination confirmed by congress? What about the constant conservative vs democrat number battle in the supreme court? Also, didn't Trump himself say that he can intervene in Ms. Meng's case? Edit: Great. Thanks for the downvotes as an…

> Didn't Trump nominate the supreme court justice? And isn't the nomination confirmed by congress? What about the constant conservative vs democrat number battle in the supreme court? I am not from the US but another democratic country. So I think I can provide an answer. Being nominated(in democracies) doesn't imply that they've to play by the nominator's rules. In democracies, all branches of the Government have to…

[deleted]

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#87

Post by sonnyblarney »

kodablah wrote: post #44
nabla9 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different systems and real differences. China does not have the rule of law or separation of powers like western countries have. In the west it's not easy for the executive branch to interfere with individual cases. US or Canada executive branch can't just tell justice department to arrest someone. In China that's possible and common.

This doesn't completely address the commenter's point. They asked how the GP came to the conclusion that they were arrested randomly which is a reasonable question. Not knowing doesn't mean your guess is accurate. Granted, one can take issue with the double standard question...but to twist it a bit, it's kinda a double standard to, without evidence/reason, say a country is doing something without evidence/reason.

There are charges laid against Meng in public, the whole world can see what she's accused of. So far, there seems to be rule of law.

The Canadians in China have vanished: we don't know why they if they have been arrested, charged, there's no hint of anything.

So yes - 'being charged in a court of law' is rather different from 'government agents arbitrarily grabbing you off the street'.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#88

Post by sonnyblarney »

RidingPegasus wrote: post #49
giarc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe Canada was played. I doubt she would have ever taken a flight through the USA and therefore this was probably their only chance to get her.

The sealed indictment for her arrest was 4 months ago on Aug 22, she has traveled through numerous countries including Canada in that time. The arrest came only hours after US/China trade talks finished, it's also unusual in that it's an individual rather than the company being taken to court. She's also the CFO of the world's 2nd biggest smartphone manufacturer that just overtook Apple. Decide for yourself.

If this is true, it really sheds light on this because it would indicate the arrest was political.

Given the situation, I actually doubt it. I don't think this is Trump et. al. throwing a curve ball, I think this is the Feds just doing their job with bad timing.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#89

Post by alextooter »

diminish wrote: post #68
monksy wrote: post #43

If this is a retaliation and they intend on continuing on this. China is going to find it's self on the bad end of travel advisories by a lot of western nations. BTW There have been videos about "tourist crackdowns" and how some of the authoritarian governments use visitors as scapegoats of bad behavior.

US has become a risky destination for ordinary business travel. I suppose business and tech conferences better take place in neutral places where rule of law prevails.

I remember German and France businessmen arrest in US. IMF's ex president is also arrest because he question the GOLD problem.
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