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Second Canadian 'missing' in China

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Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#11

Post by gcb0 »

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #4
RidingPegasus wrote: post #2

Outline for us Indochina types: https://outline.com/qUJvaJ Quite surprised Canada has gotten itself into this considering the potential for escalation which is now playing out. A "NGO worker", possibly of natsec value and now another Canadian national. What did they really expect arresting corporate dynasty? Watching the US and China duke it out in a trade war is somewhat in other countries interest economically, hig…

Canada has an extradition agreement with the US. The Canadian government has a duty to uphold its end, which means arrest the individual when the US requests it and investigate the merits of the case. The Justice Department would do the same, though I'm sad to say, as a Canadian, that our prosecutors in Canada seem less interested in high-level white collar crime. (Yes, less interested than their American counterpart…

the world doesn't work like that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

power and situation dictates how laws, specially from international treaties, are upheld.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#12

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kannanvijayan wrote: post #10
ahmedalsudani wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has an extradition agreement with the US. The Canadian government has a duty to uphold its end, which means arrest the individual when the US requests it and investigate the merits of the case. The Justice Department would do the same, though I'm sad to say, as a Canadian, that our prosecutors in Canada seem less interested in high-level white collar crime. (Yes, less interested than their American counterpart…

I agree with this perspective, with the addendum that the US president's statements might end up working against the prosecutors requesting extradition. It raises the real possibility that Meng's trial in the US would be subject to political or economic considerations as opposed to the legal facts surrounding the foundation of the extradition request - an argument I would expect her lawyers to seize upon. Before the…

> Meng's trial in the US would be subject to political or economic considerations

Unlike in China, Canadian and American courts are fiercely independent of the executive.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#13

Post by hucxsz »

str33t_punk wrote: post #9

China is making themselves look horrible here. Ms. Meng has a proper reason for being arrested (the allegations are that she committed fraud to bypass US sanctions against Iran and sell them US tech by lying about HuaWei and SkyComs involvement to HSBC). There will be a trial, this investigation has been happening for years, and it is by the Justice Department, not a request from Trump (who seems to have been caught…

How did you come to a conclusion that randomly arrested two people? Double standard?

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#14

Post by giarc »

fatjokes wrote: post #5

The US has played Canada. They request this, Canada performs the arrest, Trump plays good cop ("I'll intervene if I have to"), and China can't retaliate against the US but can take it out on Canada. I'm sure Trump is giddy given how much he dislikes Trudeau.

I don't believe Canada was played. I doubt she would have ever taken a flight through the USA and therefore this was probably their only chance to get her.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#16

Post by RidingPegasus »

ahmedalsudani wrote: post #4
RidingPegasus wrote: post #2

Outline for us Indochina types: https://outline.com/qUJvaJ Quite surprised Canada has gotten itself into this considering the potential for escalation which is now playing out. A "NGO worker", possibly of natsec value and now another Canadian national. What did they really expect arresting corporate dynasty? Watching the US and China duke it out in a trade war is somewhat in other countries interest economically, hig…

Canada has an extradition agreement with the US. The Canadian government has a duty to uphold its end, which means arrest the individual when the US requests it and investigate the merits of the case. The Justice Department would do the same, though I'm sad to say, as a Canadian, that our prosecutors in Canada seem less interested in high-level white collar crime. (Yes, less interested than their American counterpart…

The US has a long history of refusing extradition requests by allies despite overwhelming evidence. It's become a one way street. The UK has blocked extradition to the US before even though the guilt is assured[0], the alleged crimes here are nothing in comparison.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon#British_governme...

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#17

Post by 0xb33fdead »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #6
RidingPegasus wrote: post #2

Outline for us Indochina types: https://outline.com/qUJvaJ Quite surprised Canada has gotten itself into this considering the potential for escalation which is now playing out. A "NGO worker", possibly of natsec value and now another Canadian national. What did they really expect arresting corporate dynasty? Watching the US and China duke it out in a trade war is somewhat in other countries interest economically, hig…

"What did they really expect arresting corporate dynasty?" Justice? Transparency? Rule of law? Freedom of conscience and expression? 'Doing business with Iran' is not what she was arrested for - she was arrested for proving tech made in the USA to Iran, which is definitely a different thing. Grated it was very low tech.

Okay, hold up. "grated it was very low tech"; where did you learn about this (or is this an opinionated downplay)?

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#18

Post by JumpCrisscross »

RidingPegasus wrote: post #16
ahmedalsudani wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has an extradition agreement with the US. The Canadian government has a duty to uphold its end, which means arrest the individual when the US requests it and investigate the merits of the case. The Justice Department would do the same, though I'm sad to say, as a Canadian, that our prosecutors in Canada seem less interested in high-level white collar crime. (Yes, less interested than their American counterpart…

The US has a long history of refusing extradition requests by allies despite overwhelming evidence. It's become a one way street. The UK has blocked extradition to the US before even though the guilt is assured[0], the alleged crimes here are nothing in comparison. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon#British_governme...

> the alleged crimes here are nothing in comparison

Willfully violating sanctions is a serious crime.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#19

Post by nutcracker46 »

Here come the wumao, arguing that "Canada should have known better." Canada is doing exactly what it should: uphold rule of law, including treaty obligations.

The issue is extradition of a bank fraud suspect, no matter how much the delicate feelings of China get hurt.

Who would prefer to let a person commit fraud and walk away if they are rich or have powerful connections? You can bet your asses that no one would care if Meng was an uneducated, poor, and unconnected fentanyl seller.

The arrest disturbed the hornet nest of Chinese state power, so bring out the pesticide.

Re: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

#20

Post by wybiral »

People are jumping to a number of conclusions in these threads with little evidence. The rapid down-voting is crazy.

There's no confirmation that this had anything to do with Meng, or that these people weren't guilty of something worth investigating.

Wait for more details before assuming that everything is connected.

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