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Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

blogs.scientificamerican.com

81–90 of 195 posts

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#81
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We take measures now, for tissues where prions are a possible transmission risk. The article mis-represented that. But: (1) there are only so many resources to go around. Should we be devoting them to vanishingly rare things rather than things that might actually affect you? (2) prions will never be a wildfire plague. They have little or no tranmissive ability, by nature of being absolutely naked protein. One step up…

The example in the article has very little transmissive ability because it grows in the brain and eyes. If there were a respiratory prion disease that could be much different. By nature of being a protein they are simpler and harder to eliminate than bacteria or viruses: > In a particularly vexing twist, prions are also nearly impervious to destruction, even when attacked using a strenuous combination of disinfectant…

> If there were a respiratory prion disease that could be much different.

Not really. The point your parent is making is that prions themselves don't reproduce like viruses and bacteria. Its basically impossible for a large scale breakout to occur and spread.

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infectious disease is one area where fear of the unknown is rational. We don't just need to defend against existing diseases, but also diseases yet to emerge. Just because CJD is rare doesn't mean that the next prion disease will be, so it would make sense to take measures to prevent transmission of prions now.

I don't think that's true. Prions aren't bacteria or viruses that evolve and transmit. They're mostly just a misfolded protein that occurs spontaneously. (They can then be transmitted.) I'm not sure there will ever be a prion that hasn't already existed, whereas I am sure there will be new viruses and bacteria.

I think this underestimates the complexity of proteins.

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true. Prions aren't bacteria or viruses that evolve and transmit. They're mostly just a misfolded protein that occurs spontaneously. (They can then be transmitted.) I'm not sure there will ever be a prion that hasn't already existed, whereas I am sure there will be new viruses and bacteria.

If they can replicate imperfectly, they're subject that evolutionary processes.

They don't replicate. Prions can't themselves make more prions like viruses do.

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#84

As someone with anxiety and eye problems, I'm not feeling great.

The top comment sheds some light on the rarity of the disease and the article just being some sort of fear mongering -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18648393

If you don't eat brains, you're pretty much safe.

If you eat brains, your risks go up by multiple magnitudes.

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#85

As someone with anxiety and eye problems, I'm not feeling great.

Same here. I've had strange eye problems that my doctor hasn't been able to explain, and I feel like my cognition is declining. It's easy to buy into unknowns like this which seem to explain everything wrong with you, but it's exceedingly unlikely. More likely is that my eye problems are from wearing contacts in for too long and staring too long at a computer in a low-humidity environment and never blinking. My cogni…

> I've had strange eye problems that my doctor hasn't been able to explain, and I feel like my cognition is declining

You could also explain this with low-level heavy metal exposure, e.g. mercury, as well as a large amount of other possibilities :-)

I thought hard if I should write this, as a joke and only the above line at first, but here it goes. Having read your second paragraph too, that is pretty much exactly what I said to myself a decade ago and before. Then some things escalated a little bit and I was forced to either accept all my increasing issues, or do some research myself.

Turned out I had chronic heavy metal poisoning from mercury. Fortunately diagnosis was made easy because I actually had high levels of it in hair and blood (and urine - same as blood since that's where that comes from). Anyway, the scale of the problem was only made clear during chelation therapy, when both I as well as my (university clinic researcher) doctor were amazed at all the things that improved, including "miracles" such as thyroid normalization (had been enlarged and with a nodule for decades, completely gone within half a year of DMPS chelation, left the endocrinologist speechless, literally, he checked me twice with ultrasound to make sure he had not make a mistake). This issue is next to impossible to diagnose with today's methods, unlike acute poisoning, because how much you see in blood, urine or even hair does not say anything about the size of the problem, it only shows up when it actually moves around the body which it only does after exposure.

I had had dry eyes too, and of course the ophthalmologist as well as I myself attributed it to too much screen work. Today, after years of chelation, I sit in front of a monitor much more than ever before - but now I have zero issues. Same with RSI. Sooo many little things are completely gone from my body, depression too.

The crazy thing is, up to that point ~10 years ago when I had to confront that something was not quite right, I called myself "healthy". And why not? I could run a half marathon just for fun and still come back feeling relaxed. All the many little issues I had, such as a few warts on the feet (more and more over the decades but I ignored the trend), winter depression (many people have that, it's normal!), eye problems (not really severe, so not worth thinking about it) and many many other, my brain refused to think about it. The reality my brain created of my world was highly distorted, but I did not know it. Only the huge and unexpected changes happening after I began chelation (DMPS, later DMSA) showed me the extend of the thus far ignored problem.

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#86
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infectious disease is one area where fear of the unknown is rational. We don't just need to defend against existing diseases, but also diseases yet to emerge. Just because CJD is rare doesn't mean that the next prion disease will be, so it would make sense to take measures to prevent transmission of prions now.

We take measures now, for tissues where prions are a possible transmission risk. The article mis-represented that. But: (1) there are only so many resources to go around. Should we be devoting them to vanishingly rare things rather than things that might actually affect you? (2) prions will never be a wildfire plague. They have little or no tranmissive ability, by nature of being absolutely naked protein. One step up…

Nitpick but the step between virus and prion is a viroid; a naked piece of RNA. They mostly exist in plants to my knowledge and are basically the smallest possible infectious disease. The smallest viroids clock in at around 120 base pairs (240 nucleotides).

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#87
post #10

Prion disease is exceedingly rare. CJD is the most common, with an incidence of 1 per 1,000,000 person-years worldwide, inclusive of all transmission vectors (including medical procedures). Iatrogenic transmission is a rarer subset still: the riskiest transplants (with respect to CJD) are in the central nervous system. The UK tracked their transmission rates from 1970 to 2003 (a long period is needed because surgical…

> This article is one good step above scare-mongering, but only one.

I agree. Could a moderator please change the title at the least?

"Prions, A Rare and Lethal Infection, ..." would be slightly better.

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#88
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can replicate imperfectly, they're subject that evolutionary processes.

They don't replicate. Prions can't themselves make more prions like viruses do.

I think the main difference is an imperfectly-replicated virus or bacteria might still be viable.

A prion only makes itself. Even if it replicated imperfectly, the odds of a slightly different misfolded protein becoming another prion are vanishingly small (otherwise we'd all be dead) because there probably just are very, very few configurations possible. The vast majority of misfolded proteins just do nothing.

There are several billion humans who are each replicating millions of copies of each of the 20,000 or so proteins during their lifetimes. It seems pretty unlikely that there are many misfolds that haven't occurred. It's just that only a handful become prions. And even if they do, prions are thankfully very hard to communicate (again, we'd all be dead if they weren't).

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#89
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they can replicate imperfectly, they're subject that evolutionary processes.

They don't replicate. Prions can't themselves make more prions like viruses do.

They can induce correctly-folded proteins to misfold, effectively replicating.

Re: Prions, Nearly Indestructible and Universally Lethal, Seed the Eyes of Victims

#90
The part about the possibility of contracting these from your doctor's equipment when you go in for an eye exam is truly scary:

"Undiagnosed CJD patients may seek testing. And the diagnostic equipment used to test them may then become contaminated, the authors write. They recommend single-use instruments or the adoption of new decontamination procedures for opthalmological equipment with better effectiveness on prions."

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