Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

theglobeandmail.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 105 posts

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#61

Post by scotty79 »

_ywdj wrote: post #58
sizzle wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you prove your recovery wasn't due to a sort of a placebo effect, and that the act of you believing you found a panacea for recovery through addressing your childhood traumas was what was actually causing a cascade of neurological mechanisms that made you feel better, rather than working through childhood traumas themself?

These discussions always follow the same script :) Before I started the trauma-healing therapies, I'd spent about 6-7 years trying to get well using other methods; initially mainstream medicine and mainstream psychiatry including antidepressants, then things like diet (paleo etc), exercise, nutrition supplementation, meditation, yoga. I believed in them all just as much as I believed in the trauma approach, yet my he…

> initially mainstream psychiatry including antidepressants, then things like diet (paleo etc), exercise, nutrition supplementation, meditation, yoga.

Of all of those I think only excercise has proven positive effect on some things. Others are at best proven not to be harmful.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#62

Post by scotty79 »

cpncrunch wrote: post #53
SpikeDad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your position just confirms your position. It's circular and can not provide the slightest bit of evidence toward the efficacy of the procedure. Sorry.

You missed where he said "research findings linking stress/trauma with physiological conditions like inflammation, immune weakness, digestion etc, which aligns with my experience." My experience is similar to Tom's, and the science is increasingly showing that stress and emotions are linked in pain, fatigue, neuroinflammation, cytokines, etc.

> linking

That's pretty weak. I can much easier imagine being prone to inflammation causing psychological trauma than other way around.

Besides... you tried to treat chronic muscle and joint pain, digestive issues, fatigue/lethargy, skin conditions, signs of inflammation with psychiatry and antidepressants? Initially? That's really bad starting point to approach collection of very probably unrelated problems.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#63

Post by cpncrunch »

scotty79 wrote: post #62
cpncrunch wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed where he said "research findings linking stress/trauma with physiological conditions like inflammation, immune weakness, digestion etc, which aligns with my experience." My experience is similar to Tom's, and the science is increasingly showing that stress and emotions are linked in pain, fatigue, neuroinflammation, cytokines, etc.

> linking That's pretty weak. I can much easier imagine being prone to inflammation causing psychological trauma than other way around. Besides... you tried to treat chronic muscle and joint pain, digestive issues, fatigue/lethargy, skin conditions, signs of inflammation with psychiatry and antidepressants? Initially? That's really bad starting point to approach collection of very probably unrelated problems.

Poor choice of words. There is extensive research showing that psychological stress causes inflammation (for example), and we have known this for quite a few decades.

I wouldnt expect antidepressants to be a primary treatment.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#64

Post by ekun »

_ywdj wrote: post #40

I’ve been testing this hypothesis - as best as one possibly can without conventional medical support - for the past few years. I’ve found that with persistence, emotion-based therapies are effective at bringing about healing of chronic physiological illnesses. Prior to that I’d spent several frustrating years seeking diagnosis for conditions that were debilitating but not apparently identifiable or treatable. To me t…

There's a lot of skeptics in here with myself included to a certain extent. But I really appreciate your story and am interested in pursuing a similar trajectory. I don't understand how anyone can be fully skeptical that bettering your mental health / previous traumas would be nothing but good for your overall health.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#65

Post by md224 »

bornon5 wrote: post #56
ceras wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left a recent comment on HN about this[0], and at the risk of sounding like a shill I'll share it again as it helped at least one person :) My experience tracks with yours, and it really does seem like modern medicine is missing something important. The book The Mind-Body Prescription[1] by Dr. Sarno covers this exact topic, and made a huge impact on my life and the life of a friend of mine. It's a worthwhile read…

I've seen this book recommended from time to time. I have a condition that falls within the book's purported domain, but when I read the synopsis, it raised all kinds of red flags. As a skeptic, what about this book let it through your filters? I really want to be open to it.

I'm not the person you're replying to, but I'm curious about the other side of this: what were the red flags you found, and why do you consider them red flags?

I find that open-mindedness can be as simple as questioning and rethinking one's heuristics for detecting bullshit. These heuristics are useful for keeping us sane, but we should recognize them for what they are: epistemic shortcuts that allow us to dismiss something as false without really investigating it. What we gain in efficiency we lose in accuracy, and sometimes we end up missing out on something potentially useful.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#66

Post by _ywdj »

scotty79 wrote: post #59
_ywdj wrote: post #40

I’ve been testing this hypothesis - as best as one possibly can without conventional medical support - for the past few years. I’ve found that with persistence, emotion-based therapies are effective at bringing about healing of chronic physiological illnesses. Prior to that I’d spent several frustrating years seeking diagnosis for conditions that were debilitating but not apparently identifiable or treatable. To me t…

7 years is a long time. I find it hard to believe that your life stayed exactly the same and the only thing you can attribute your partial recovery to is reminiscing on your personal, unique psychological scars. > chronic muscle and joint pain, Maybe new couch or different chair at work? Maybe bit more walking becsuse you now frequent different grocery store or now park usually bit further? Maybe you don't go anymore…

It's notable that in order to attempt to refute my story you've had to conjure up a whole lot of hypotheticals.

You might consider that over nearly 15 years experiencing pain and distress, I've done a bit of research and tried a few different approaches.

In fact I've spent at least an hour or two per day for pretty much that entire period, trying various ways of getting well, and learning about ways of doing so.

If a new chair was going to make the difference, I would have figured that out by about year 3 or 4 at most.

In fact, I've tried every remedy that you can imagine and many that you can't, and read every relevant book, research paper and internet forum post that might possibly be useful.

I come from a scientific family and work in a scientific field; I understand logic and reason; my career and health depends on it.

I have no incentive to promote or engage in any ineffective remedy; my only incentive has been to become free of pain and illness through whatever means possible, and having now done so I'm happy to share my experiences with others who want to learn from them.

For what it's worth your position relies on some assumptions about physiology that I used to accept but no longer do (or more accurately, no longer can). Most importantly this assertion: "your mind is just a function of your physical brain like digestion is the function of your physical gut". I'm not going to try and educate you on this as there is ample material around for you to find if you care to, but you need to examine this assumption in order to properly grasp this topic.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#67

Post by _ywdj »

scotty79 wrote: post #62
cpncrunch wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed where he said "research findings linking stress/trauma with physiological conditions like inflammation, immune weakness, digestion etc, which aligns with my experience." My experience is similar to Tom's, and the science is increasingly showing that stress and emotions are linked in pain, fatigue, neuroinflammation, cytokines, etc.

> linking That's pretty weak. I can much easier imagine being prone to inflammation causing psychological trauma than other way around. Besides... you tried to treat chronic muscle and joint pain, digestive issues, fatigue/lethargy, skin conditions, signs of inflammation with psychiatry and antidepressants? Initially? That's really bad starting point to approach collection of very probably unrelated problems.

Of course I saw conventional physicians first, multiple times over several years. My health kept getting worse.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#68

Post by scotty79 »

cpncrunch wrote: post #63
scotty79 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> linking That's pretty weak. I can much easier imagine being prone to inflammation causing psychological trauma than other way around. Besides... you tried to treat chronic muscle and joint pain, digestive issues, fatigue/lethargy, skin conditions, signs of inflammation with psychiatry and antidepressants? Initially? That's really bad starting point to approach collection of very probably unrelated problems.

Poor choice of words. There is extensive research showing that psychological stress causes inflammation (for example), and we have known this for quite a few decades. I wouldnt expect antidepressants to be a primary treatment.

Stress in research is pretty broad term.

"Stress is a state of threatened homeostasis provoked by a psychological, environmental, or physiological stressor."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5476783/

I think that just rising the pressure, heart rate and increasing few hormones without moving muscles enough causes inflamation. The reason is not important. It doesn't matter if it was caused by your mom telling you she does not love you or by you wining at slot machine or breathing city air or loud noise.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#69

Post by naasking »

scotty79 wrote: post #59
_ywdj wrote: post #40

I’ve been testing this hypothesis - as best as one possibly can without conventional medical support - for the past few years. I’ve found that with persistence, emotion-based therapies are effective at bringing about healing of chronic physiological illnesses. Prior to that I’d spent several frustrating years seeking diagnosis for conditions that were debilitating but not apparently identifiable or treatable. To me t…

7 years is a long time. I find it hard to believe that your life stayed exactly the same and the only thing you can attribute your partial recovery to is reminiscing on your personal, unique psychological scars. > chronic muscle and joint pain, Maybe new couch or different chair at work? Maybe bit more walking becsuse you now frequent different grocery store or now park usually bit further? Maybe you don't go anymore…

> that I think it's better to consider the possibility that nearly all ailments have physicsl causes.

The brain is physical. Our experience is physical. Our experience can directly impact our other organs. Why else would your heart rate increase in fearful situations?

Point being, "all ailments have physical causes" includes the brain.

> You don't think that you have now skin problems because 10 years ago you ate too many pancakes and had a constipation but now you massage your belly a bit to reconcile that past trauma and your skin problems will go away.

That's not how I read the comment. Seems like he was suggesting that old traumas led to maladaptive behaviours which led to ailments. That's perfectly reasonable.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#70

Post by _ywdj »

scotty79 wrote: post #61
_ywdj wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These discussions always follow the same script :) Before I started the trauma-healing therapies, I'd spent about 6-7 years trying to get well using other methods; initially mainstream medicine and mainstream psychiatry including antidepressants, then things like diet (paleo etc), exercise, nutrition supplementation, meditation, yoga. I believed in them all just as much as I believed in the trauma approach, yet my he…

> initially mainstream psychiatry including antidepressants, then things like diet (paleo etc), exercise, nutrition supplementation, meditation, yoga. Of all of those I think only excercise has proven positive effect on some things. Others are at best proven not to be harmful.

Partly true.

Strenuous exercise actually made my condition worse. That turns out to be a symptom of CFS/ME, I found out later.

These therapies generally proved to be ineffective when I didn't do any emotional work.

Since doing the emotional work, moderate exercise and nutrition work and stretching exercises (yoga/pilates) add to the effectiveness of my efforts.

Post reply on HN