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Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

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Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#51

Post by SpikeDad »

_ywdj wrote: post #49
whatshisface wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that you did not have a natural recovery that just happened to coincide with the new intervention?

Because the onset and decline of my symptoms all map directly to my experience of trauma and the process of trauma identification and resolution. Here’s something for you to think about, as I think there’s a flaw in your question: do you think the onset of my symptoms was “natural”, just as the recovery was “natural”? I believe in causality, and I can comfortably accept that chronic illness is a natural consequence o…

Your position just confirms your position. It's circular and can not provide the slightest bit of evidence toward the efficacy of the procedure. Sorry.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#52

Post by _ywdj »

SpikeDad wrote: post #51
_ywdj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the onset and decline of my symptoms all map directly to my experience of trauma and the process of trauma identification and resolution. Here’s something for you to think about, as I think there’s a flaw in your question: do you think the onset of my symptoms was “natural”, just as the recovery was “natural”? I believe in causality, and I can comfortably accept that chronic illness is a natural consequence o…

Your position just confirms your position. It's circular and can not provide the slightest bit of evidence toward the efficacy of the procedure. Sorry.

This is not a peer review process. I’m not here to persuade anyone who is determined to be skeptical. You’re welcome to propose another cause for my illness and explanation for the fact that it kept getting worse while I kept enduring trauma and started getting better as soon as I started resolving that trauma. Others can judge the merits of responding with a sneering dismissal to the perspective I’m trying to share.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#53

Post by cpncrunch »

SpikeDad wrote: post #51
_ywdj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the onset and decline of my symptoms all map directly to my experience of trauma and the process of trauma identification and resolution. Here’s something for you to think about, as I think there’s a flaw in your question: do you think the onset of my symptoms was “natural”, just as the recovery was “natural”? I believe in causality, and I can comfortably accept that chronic illness is a natural consequence o…

Your position just confirms your position. It's circular and can not provide the slightest bit of evidence toward the efficacy of the procedure. Sorry.

You missed where he said "research findings linking stress/trauma with physiological conditions like inflammation, immune weakness, digestion etc, which aligns with my experience."

My experience is similar to Tom's, and the science is increasingly showing that stress and emotions are linked in pain, fatigue, neuroinflammation, cytokines, etc.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#54

Post by cpncrunch »

Someone1234 wrote: post #3

Just want to say that for tens of years Multiple Sclerosis was considered a mental health disorder, and Crohn's Disease continues to be commonly misdiagnosed. And while this team's results speak for themselves in certain cases, I'd be interested to hear about the patients who it isn't effective for and where they're left after. The medical field has to deal with a lot of Somatoform Disorders (or similar mental issues…

The article says that "every possibility has been explored" before undergoing this treatment, and that "his team has sent patients back to the referring specialist, recommending more tests", so it clearly isn't some kind of "mental health catch all".

Also bear in mind that stress is a known trigger for MS, and psychological therapy has shown to be effective at reducing MS fatigue (see for example, Rona Moss Morris' recent trial, and others), so we're perhaps close to coming full circle with MS, recognising that psychological factors are important in triggering it, and also in treatment. (Although I suspect when I say "close", we're talking about another 50 years before neurologists -- especially in the USA -- get the memo).

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#55

Post by sizzle »

_ywdj wrote: post #49
whatshisface wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that you did not have a natural recovery that just happened to coincide with the new intervention?

Because the onset and decline of my symptoms all map directly to my experience of trauma and the process of trauma identification and resolution. Here’s something for you to think about, as I think there’s a flaw in your question: do you think the onset of my symptoms was “natural”, just as the recovery was “natural”? I believe in causality, and I can comfortably accept that chronic illness is a natural consequence o…

How can you prove your recovery wasn't due to a sort of a placebo effect, and that the act of you believing you found a panacea for recovery through addressing your childhood traumas was what was actually causing a cascade of neurological mechanisms that made you feel better, rather than working through childhood traumas themself?

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#56

Post by bornon5 »

ceras wrote: post #48
_ywdj wrote: post #40

I’ve been testing this hypothesis - as best as one possibly can without conventional medical support - for the past few years. I’ve found that with persistence, emotion-based therapies are effective at bringing about healing of chronic physiological illnesses. Prior to that I’d spent several frustrating years seeking diagnosis for conditions that were debilitating but not apparently identifiable or treatable. To me t…

I left a recent comment on HN about this[0], and at the risk of sounding like a shill I'll share it again as it helped at least one person :) My experience tracks with yours, and it really does seem like modern medicine is missing something important. The book The Mind-Body Prescription[1] by Dr. Sarno covers this exact topic, and made a huge impact on my life and the life of a friend of mine. It's a worthwhile read…

I've seen this book recommended from time to time. I have a condition that falls within the book's purported domain, but when I read the synopsis, it raised all kinds of red flags. As a skeptic, what about this book let it through your filters? I really want to be open to it.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#57

Post by aklemm »

_ywdj wrote: post #52
SpikeDad wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your position just confirms your position. It's circular and can not provide the slightest bit of evidence toward the efficacy of the procedure. Sorry.

This is not a peer review process. I’m not here to persuade anyone who is determined to be skeptical. You’re welcome to propose another cause for my illness and explanation for the fact that it kept getting worse while I kept enduring trauma and started getting better as soon as I started resolving that trauma. Others can judge the merits of responding with a sneering dismissal to the perspective I’m trying to share.

There's a tendency toward misguided objectivity/rationalism here sometimes, but it should be clear your reasoning is fine, even it doesn't prove anything, which you seem very aware of. What more could someone want from an individual internet comment?

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#58

Post by _ywdj »

sizzle wrote: post #55
_ywdj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the onset and decline of my symptoms all map directly to my experience of trauma and the process of trauma identification and resolution. Here’s something for you to think about, as I think there’s a flaw in your question: do you think the onset of my symptoms was “natural”, just as the recovery was “natural”? I believe in causality, and I can comfortably accept that chronic illness is a natural consequence o…

How can you prove your recovery wasn't due to a sort of a placebo effect, and that the act of you believing you found a panacea for recovery through addressing your childhood traumas was what was actually causing a cascade of neurological mechanisms that made you feel better, rather than working through childhood traumas themself?

These discussions always follow the same script :)

Before I started the trauma-healing therapies, I'd spent about 6-7 years trying to get well using other methods; initially mainstream medicine and mainstream psychiatry including antidepressants, then things like diet (paleo etc), exercise, nutrition supplementation, meditation, yoga.

I believed in them all just as much as I believed in the trauma approach, yet my health continued to get worse. Indeed, when I started the trauma approach I didn't believe in it. Yet it worked far better than anything I'd tried before.

Over the time I've undertaken the trauma healing, I've lapseed in and out of focusing on diet, exercise, etc. These things are of course important; I wouldn't be getting healthy if I was spending all day on the couch consuming burgers and Coke non-stop.

But my experience is that they don't have any positive effect if I'm not also doing the trauma healing work.

Also, you might examine/contemplate what the placebo effect actually is. If it's healing that comes about due a change in emotional state (i.e., belief and optimism that a cure is being implemented) then it serves more to prove the theory than cast doubt on it.

Edit: added the fact that I'd been sought help from mainstream medicine at the beginning of this journey.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#59

Post by scotty79 »

_ywdj wrote: post #40

I’ve been testing this hypothesis - as best as one possibly can without conventional medical support - for the past few years. I’ve found that with persistence, emotion-based therapies are effective at bringing about healing of chronic physiological illnesses. Prior to that I’d spent several frustrating years seeking diagnosis for conditions that were debilitating but not apparently identifiable or treatable. To me t…

7 years is a long time. I find it hard to believe that your life stayed exactly the same and the only thing you can attribute your partial recovery to is reminiscing on your personal, unique psychological scars.

> chronic muscle and joint pain,

Maybe new couch or different chair at work? Maybe bit more walking becsuse you now frequent different grocery store or now park usually bit further? Maybe you don't go anymore to the places where people can pass onto you some virus that manifests in few days of muscle and joint pains? I sometimes get them. I can recognize them because they are sometimes causing few sneezes over few days, way too few to say 'I have a cold' but really hard muscle and joint pains and fatigue.

> digestive issues,

This might be as simple as not eating one thing anymore because they no longer sell it, it's no longer tasty for you or you stopped seeing person you ate it with?

> fatigue/lethargy,

Maybe less stress at work, nothing good to binge on Netflix, or you got bored with that one game you really liked to play, new bed, couch, you nap more often or just developed resistance to coffee fallout?

> skin conditions,

My hands started itching like crazy in the beginning of winter. Atopic dermatitis? Nah my skin just started spontaneously cracking in dry cold weather because it got old (at 30). Now I just use hand cream (what a disgrace) and all the little itching microwounds just seal in 2-3 days.

You skin issues might have gone away because of lighter winters or less time spent in AC or just AC getting old. Or you getting older, or bit cleaner air because patterns of traffic near the sites you frequent changed, or changes in population of local plants.

> signs of inflammation

That's highly unspecific.

My point is, you are deeply dependant of your environment.

Also there is no ideal, healthy you. You are just bunch of cells subjected to billions of organic chemistry reactions that surprisingly manage not to rot when subjected to elements for few decades thanks to miracle of evolution that shaped them.

What your mind experience is generally not important with some exceptions. If you are subjected to stressful emotions that are too long or too strong you potentially get some brain damage that could alter how you function later. But that's not a rule. There are people who had really horrible psychological experiences in life but they don't get anymore trouble because of that in later life then we all get from the environment we live in and our bodies getting old in common and unique ways.

So many illnesses of mind and body were thought to come from what your mind experienced and later turned out to be just bacteria, viruses, or your own genes acting up with age that I think it's better to consider the possibility that nearly all ailments have physicsl causes.

After all your mind is just a function of your physical brain like digestion is the function of your physical gut. You don't think that you have now skin problems because 10 years ago you ate too many pancakes and had a constipation but now you massage your belly a bit to reconcile that past trauma and your skin problems will go away.

Re: Some unexplained physical symptoms may be caused by unresolved emotional trauma

#60

Post by scotty79 »

_ywdj wrote: post #49
whatshisface wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that you did not have a natural recovery that just happened to coincide with the new intervention?

Because the onset and decline of my symptoms all map directly to my experience of trauma and the process of trauma identification and resolution. Here’s something for you to think about, as I think there’s a flaw in your question: do you think the onset of my symptoms was “natural”, just as the recovery was “natural”? I believe in causality, and I can comfortably accept that chronic illness is a natural consequence o…

> Illness doesn’t happen without a cause

Put 20 balls in 10 buckets each. Choose pair of buckets randomly and move one ball from one bucket to the other. After some iterations you end up with buckets withe many balls and buckets with few.

You might think about buckets with few balls as 'ill'. Did their illness have a cause? Of course. The cause was the were subjected to random process. Just like your body is when it lives.

You can easily see how fragile your body is to entropy if you just stop the flow of blood in your body for few days. You go from living being that could stay in decent shape for few decades to pile of bloated rotting meat. And all that due to nothing more than spontaneous random various processes.

There are always causes but Sherlock Holmes is a fictional character for a reason. In real life situation you very rarely can 'eliminate what's impossible' to be left with one possible cause 'however improbable'.

If you end up with improbable then it's nearly always because you eliminated something you shouldn't have or alltogether missed whole bunch of possibilities.

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