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Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

economist.com

141–150 of 270 posts

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#141

I. Don't. Want. Treatment. I come from a poor family, with amazing parents, but with limited resources. And sorry to say it in a time where autism "is a disease that needs to be eradicated", but I have my whole current living standard to thank of being a autistic.

Not everyone is high functioning. A friend of mine with a nonverbal autistic daughter might take a different view if offered a treatment.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#142
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is free will, but like most things in life, it is a privilege not everyone has; many people are constrained by invisible shackles. I would wager that evil still exists, but it requires full awareness of what one is doing when perpetrating it, and so it is more rare than we think. (Of course, this is just an opinion.)

This is an extremely articulate and beautiful perspective. How did you acquire it?

It's not beautiful because it's wrong and results in people continuing to be under an illusion. The madness that continues around believing people make their own choices and should be punished is the result of this magical thinking which should be eventually classified as a mental illness. Since society hurts people who had no control and when under this horrible belief.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#143

A bit off topic but what is the HN consensus on probiotics? Any brands you can recommend?

On the advice of my gastroenterologist I am taking them now and so far, so good. Only a couple weeks of experience, however, and a sample size of 1. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say you should definitely get a doctor's recommendation before trying them, but I don't think I'd bother if I weren't specifically targeting relief of some kind of symptom. NIH says they only last as long as you take them so you have to keep it up indefinitely.

Also, I can't even say mine are actually working for me, because my doctor also told me to start taking soluble fiber; that could be my magic bullet. It's a process, I'm still going to be experimenting depending on how the next few weeks go.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#144
post #114
post #113

The whole article is about a study on autistic mice. Except that there's no such thing as an autistic mouse. Trying to apply the diagnosis of autism to a mouse is so beyond ridiculous.

Care to share your reasoning? - the article describes the symptoms in mice that the researchers observe, and it seems like a reasonable place to start. Or do you just prefer to disparage the work of these researchers, without explanation?

Agreed, too many people state things without bothering to prove it. This study may flag people's bullshit meters, but simply stating mice can't be autistic is a poor way to do it.

If anyone can cite research on if mice can develop autism or not I would love to see it.

Edit: there is a study published by Nature mouse models of autism with behavioral genetics. https://www.nature.com/articles/4002082

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole group of people who're benefit from eliminating histamins, FODMAPs etc---and even any form of fiber, which probably you already know. Check out carnivores (again if you don't know yet): https://zerocarbzen.com/about-me/.. . there're facebook groups with many 10ks of members. Another is Dr Ray Peat adherents. They essentially cut out everything but orange juice and milk and meat... :) Curious sort of p…

It's a great option for people obsessed with pseudoscience I suppose.

low-FODMAPs are University (Monash) science, peer reviewed - if you know of contrary recent studies, please drop some URLs. Mere gainsaying and vituperation is never a contribution to a discussion.

One article that comes to hand: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/10/06/when-gluten-sensiti...

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#146

There's no free will :)

I think there is free will, but like most things in life, it is a privilege not everyone has; many people are constrained by invisible shackles. I would wager that evil still exists, but it requires full awareness of what one is doing when perpetrating it, and so it is more rare than we think. (Of course, this is just an opinion.)

> I think there is free will ... many people are constrained by invisible shackles

This is a contradiction. "Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#147
post #113

The whole article is about a study on autistic mice. Except that there's no such thing as an autistic mouse. Trying to apply the diagnosis of autism to a mouse is so beyond ridiculous.

There is a clear impact of gut bacteria on behavior, that's pretty much all you need to start deriving value from the experiments.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#148
I've encountered a fair bit of research and anecdotal stories showing how gut bacteria can have all sorts of crazy effects. It really makes you wonder how many conditions could be prevented or treated by dietary changes and supplements. I already wrote this in a response, but Mikhaila Peterson really opened up my eyes to the big impact diet can have on your health. To anyone that hasn't heard of her, she switched to a carnivore diet and many of her severe lifelong symptoms appear to have gone away.

Recently I started considering the possibility that being fat could actually a symptom in some people. Controlling your weight is really easy when you're fairly healthy, but when you're sick it can become much more challenging. I used to be fairly critical of fat people, thinking that it was laziness, but I think the numbers are just too large to chalk it up exclusively to any single thing. There's also a lot of fat people that work incredibly hard and they excel at tons of things, which brings the laziness hypothesis to question. It's entirely possible that laziness plays a role in some, but when you take a high-resolution view of the world it's rare to find single-variable answers to complex problems.

We also know that your mouth bacteria can have a huge impact on your dental health. There's people that barely have to brush their teeth to maintain perfect dental health, and others that still manage to get cavities despite following fairly rigorous routines such as brushing and flossing after every meal. I'll note it's been a few years since I last looked into this claim so take this comment with a grain of salt.

Trying out probiotics seems fairly safe and it could have hugely positive effects on your health. The sibling comments from theprotocol are just one example. To add an anecdote, I recently started taking probiotics and the first thing I noticed after a few days was that I no longer felt tired after eating. I've experienced a few other positive changes, but I haven't been taking them for long enough to feel confident that those changes can be attributed exclusively to the probiotics. My biggest issue with probiotics is that finding good information about different products is fairly difficult. I basically just picked a box at random out of all the choices available.

Does anyone have suggestions of good book on this topic? I've seen The Mind-Guy Connection and The Good Gut floated around a bit, but they have mixed reviews and the scientific rigor behind some of their claims seems to be under question.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#149
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is free will: it is a key ingredient in the decision to not be responsible for anything because 'the universe did it'.

Why would that decision require free will?

Because otherwise it would have just been the universe, not doing anything at all.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#150

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis. I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amora…

> I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amoral factors can be the cause of moral, amoral, or immoral behavior.

That line is already in trouble because of genetics research, psychology research, etc showing that people's actions are less based on deliberate choice than they'd like to believe.

Of course, this all causes issues for society since (for good or bad), a stable society kinda needs to at least pretend humanity have some general sense of free will otherwise a lot of things (like the aforementioned justice system) stop making sense.

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