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Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

economist.com

21–30 of 270 posts

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#21

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis. I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amora…

I am very interested in learning more. I will Google etc. of course, but if there are links, blog posts or bits of info you would be willing to share I would be most grateful. Thanks.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#22
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you find out?

I figured out that my problems were related to intestinal microflora because they became ten times worse after undergoing 3 courses of H. Pylori eradication therapy in the span of only a few months, and I never improved for years afterwards. That's the short version; in reality, I suffered for a decade and a half before I caught on that I could do something about it, and it took about 5 years after that to get any ki…

I'm very interested in your experience.

Few questions:

- what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ?

- did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ?

- what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ?

- can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ? How ? What are the results and costs ?

- did you notice what in your life may cause you to loose a proper gut content ?

And if you ever have the time, can you give a long explaination text about your overall experience ? That's the kind of information I'm mining hard for. I do understand it takes time and also that you are not a doctor and cannot be considered a representative sample. But it's very interesting and hard to find information.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#23

Without S. Boulardii, I am a neurotic mess who can't digest anything at all nor think straight after eating anything, so I'm inclined to believe this hypothesis. I am also intrigued about what this means for criminality and how the line between illness and evil is likely to shift given the role of microorganisms in behavioral dysfunction; and more broadly, we don't like to admit it, but it seems that completely amora…

It also casts religions with dietary restrictions in an interesting light.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an argument with someone about colds, saying that external temperature favorited infection and they responded by saying the cause is more likely proximity in close warm spaces. I think our system is too complex for a tiny virus to manage to influence such behaviors.. but that's not impossible.

All it takes is one simple chemical to completely alter a person's mind, mood, or behavior. Surely there are viruses large enough and substances simple enough for a virus to alter the production of a simple mind-altering compound?

Good point indeed. And when that is started it would be so efficient that it would survive.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#25

There's no free will :)

I think there is free will, but like most things in life, it is a privilege not everyone has; many people are constrained by invisible shackles. I would wager that evil still exists, but it requires full awareness of what one is doing when perpetrating it, and so it is more rare than we think. (Of course, this is just an opinion.)

This is an extremely articulate and beautiful perspective. How did you acquire it?

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#26
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How good are most experiments with a sample size of 1? Can the data gathered be independently verified?

It can be verified by others self experimenting with a sample size of 1, creating an aggregated larger data set. A type of decentralized trial, if you will.

Some research is adopting this pattern too. A great example is Dr. Satchin Panda's clinical trial on time-restricted eating. You self-select an eating window and then document it through the app. Pretty cool stuff. mycircadianclock.org

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I figured out that my problems were related to intestinal microflora because they became ten times worse after undergoing 3 courses of H. Pylori eradication therapy in the span of only a few months, and I never improved for years afterwards. That's the short version; in reality, I suffered for a decade and a half before I caught on that I could do something about it, and it took about 5 years after that to get any ki…

I'm very interested in your experience. Few questions: - what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ? - did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ? - what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ? - can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ?…

I didn't expect this level of attention at all. I hope it is appropriate for me to respond.

- what positive effects did you get taking S. Boulardii ?

Intestinal "well-being," feeling I can almost forget about my intestines, whereas normally my abdomen always hurts very badly, to the point my entire body is straining in reaction to it. This is only in combination with the other measures I took; S. Boulardii alone is insufficient.

Whenever my intestines felt fine, my head felt clear and my nose/sinuses would stop being congested; and vice versa. This phenomenon has been consistent throughout my illness and has led many a doctor to scratch his/her head and/or not take me seriously.

I tried doubling the dose after reading about that on the net (some people take 25m+ CFUs), but it gave me dryness/constipation and resulted in diverticulitis so I gave that up.

- did you try reuteri ? If no why ? If yes what happened ?

Only as part of larger probiotic formulations. I don't tolerate most and I'm not sure why. It may be that some strains produce histamines or include FOS (when I iterated through probiotic products, I was not aware of FOS - please see my other reply below where I discuss FOS). So I don't have any experience with it.

- what forms did you take the supplement in ? What form do you prefer and why ? Any brand recommanded or things to watch out ? Do you know natural reliable food sources ?

I take KAL S. Boulardii (ordered from iherb). I use veg. capsules because of a bias I have: I had bad side effects to a few liquid probiotic formulations I tried early on, so I ended up avoiding them as a general rule (which might be invalid but I have no further need to re-test it).

- can you tell me more about your 3 courses of H. Pylori eradictation ? Why ? How ? What are the results and costs ?

The reason I got the treatment in the first place was chronic inflammation in the stomach and intestines. I also had severe chronic sinus inflammation (enlarged turbinates specifically) that never abated, and a very bad response to histamines (redness, itching). I had asthma-like throat constriction; a doctor once told me "of course your heart rate's up, you're almost choking!" after I went in because I felt out of breath. I had a general drunken feeling, and would even get giddy at times. I have considered the possibility of auto-brewery syndrome, but there's no way to tell now. The doctor was a gastroenterologist so he focused on the digestive issues.

After the eradication therapy, that all got much worse and I developed noticeable food intolerances. I think I was already sensitive to those foods, but not enough that I'd notice at the time. I specifically could no longer tolerate dairy and sugar at all, and I had to greatly limit harsh foods (acidic stuff like vinegar, or very salty foods) or else I'd get gastritis extremely quickly (confirmed on endoscopy). My scalp started to itch and lots of hair fell out in my crown area. I am better with dairy nowadays but still can't have sugar, and vinegar just destroys me (I guess because it is corrosive AND high in histamines). I also can barely eat acidic foods and have to avoid most of them.

- did you notice what in your life may cause you to loose a proper gut content ?

I had always felt great until the age of 11, then it hit me and I started to have "attacks" which I didn't understand at the time, and doctors couldn't figure them out at all. I was given a bunch of things like nasal steroids for the sinus issues, and some symptomatic treatment for the stomach.

I felt so terrible though, literally like I was dying. I imagine waterboarding feels like that, because I just felt like I was unable to breathe adequately and even though it wasn't visible, I felt like I was making a contorted face all the time because of the feeling of straining. I kept asking for help but after doctors couldn't find anything, my parents began punishing me for what they thought was malingering (long story there - but they are forgiven and we are on good terms now).

I have some theories about what caused it but nothing concrete. I moved country (continent too, in fact) just 2 years prior and hygiene was far worse. I went through several bouts of gastroenteritis. I also got a salmonella immunization (capsule) and the doctor instructed my mom to open it up and release the powder in some milk, to make it easier for a child of my age to swallow it. I got extremely sick with some kind flu-like illness + gastroenteritis after that, even though my siblings who took the same immunization did not get sick.

Please see the reply I made below for some more details if you're interested

edit: I forgot to mention something relevant that would relate my experience with the article. A while back I read an article written by an autistic man, in which he mentioned "face tightness" being part of his being autistic (I only made the connection later so I don't know how to find it again). I truly think there is something to that. I felt strained and neurotic whenever my symptoms flared up, and I was quite antisocial in high school, yet mellow on the few days my symptoms cleared up.

edit: further details added. I typed this up a bit quickly (it's late here) so I had omitted some important things.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#29
post #6

Reading about toxoplasma (a parasite of rats which can infect humans and alter their behaviour), I recall something about the common cold (a virus) and behaviour. My memory is fuzzy but there was a study that indicated that those with initial stages of a cold seek out human contact more and in the case of women, show more skin. The implication is that the virus seeks to replicate by altering our behaviour to transmit…

I had an argument with someone about colds, saying that external temperature favorited infection and they responded by saying the cause is more likely proximity in close warm spaces. I think our system is too complex for a tiny virus to manage to influence such behaviors.. but that's not impossible.

The human body is complex but it has a lot of global variables. All a virus needs to do is twiddle these global variables and sometimes it will have a beneficial effect for propagation. Any part of the body can chuck any molecule into the blood stream and have it transported round the body. Virus evolutionary processes can ‘engineer’ for things to cross the blood brain barrier just like pharmaceutical researchers. Even if you can’t get into the brain, you can still drastically alter behaviour by messing around with the rest of the body.

Re: Gut bacteria may offer a treatment for autism

#30
Running this kind of article in a general-audience magazine takes a lot of guts (no pun intended) after all the trouble caused by another article about autism. That was a bogus paper in The Lancet in 1998 published by Wakefield et al. That paper, proven false, asserted a connection between Measles-Mumps-Rubella vaccine and autism.

But the effects of that paper linger on among conspiracy theorists. Let's hope this one doesn't have similar consequences.

Meanwhile, as a guy "on the spectrum" I'm going to try a subjective bioassay of L. reuterii. Can't hurt.

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