“Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice • Hacker News Board

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#51

Post by sifoobar » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #30

sifoobar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs. Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

It doesn't even taste nice Citation needed. Maybe you just haven’t tried a good beer yet.

Oh, I've drunk more quality beer than most. Stop for six months and try again if you don't believe me, once the body has detoxed it's going to start putting up a fight. I can't even smell alcohol these days, even at the levels of normal beer; it smells like gasoline.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#52

Post by ohrus » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

bovermyer wrote: post #19

neurobashing wrote: post #16

I used to do this so much. I'd get incredibly wasted and feel like I was creating amazing art, I'd pass out from exhaustion (also, drugs and alcohol) incredibly excited to show my bandmates what amazing insight I'd come up with. Then I'd see it sober and be like, "'Club me with your love truncheon'? I can't work with this. I can't ever even admit I wrote this. What the hell even is this."

I used to do similar things, except in my case it was writing longform "satire" while utterly trashed and posting it on social media. When I'd read it in the morning, it just came across as me being a drunken asshole. I became fond of the Delete Post button. I also only write sober now.

"Post drunk, delete sober" - said no one ever ever ever.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#53

Post by sifoobar » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

FakeComments wrote: post #33

sifoobar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs. Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

I actually like the taste of some beers. Your point seems really tied up in your own preferences and discounts other people’s experiences.

Keep telling yourself that then, it's not really my problem.

Or try quitting for six months and see how the body reacts to alcohol when reintroduced.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#54

Post by sifoobar » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:38 PM UTC

SafetyThird wrote: post #29

sifoobar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs. Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

Having a beer or two is not "sacrificing your health". And if liking the taste of alcoholic drinks counts as being "programmed", then so does every other preference and desire human beings have.

But it is, alcohol is very poisonous; which is why you feel like shit and loose your memory when you overdo it, and why it's so hard to hit just the right amount of poisoning to feel funny without feeling sick.

Drinking poison that tastes like shit doesn't really happen without outside pressure. That's not true of every other preference and desire.

But keep lying to yourself, not my problem.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#55

Post by josu » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

fsloth wrote: post #26

josu wrote: post #10

Bukowski seems to have written drunk many times.

Alcoholics can develop a tremendous tolerance to booze. It does not mean anyone should emulate his lifestyle. Bukowski describes his semi-fictional self Henry Chinaski as emotionally broken person, who medicates his pain with alcohol, horse racing and the like. He never actually glorifies this state of being, rather, he's brutally honest about who he is and how he behaves. There can be poetry in damage, but it's trag…

Definitely, I wasn't trying to support the use of drugs to enhance creativity. I wanted to point out that even though Hemingway could have been sober when he wrote, it doesn't falsify that there have been drunk authors throughout history. Being an addict is bad, that's unarguable.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#56

Post by scelerat » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:46 PM UTC

Completely misses the very important necessity of a creative process, which is to work free of self-criticism.

Alcohol, which lowers inhibitions for a lot of people, can help with that. That's not to say that everyone should, or even that anyone should all the time -- but it can be a productive tool, just like taking a walk, reading a book, or getting some sleep.

I think the larger point that the quippy aphorism is getting at is that one should approach creative work with a sense of openness and abandon, before tightening up and focusing on details. Entertain and explore the variety of "YES" before committing to the bounding "NO"

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#57

Post by setgree » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

I agree that being outright drunk is probably going to be bad for anything that needs precision (or patience/grit). But:

> We would never say this of other crafts. You would never nod understandingly if a plumber came to your house, completely wasted, assuring you he’d return to clean up the mess when sober. That would be ridiculous.

We do say this about other crafts. Musicians notoriously get drunk or high when recording [0-1]. Lots of programmers report doing good work after a beer [2]. I myself find that speaking Spanish gets way easier when buzzed. And so on.

The point is to not overdo it.

[0] https://pitchfork.com/features/profile/9683-cosmic-neurotic-...

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20101228123251/http://www.comple...

[2] https://xkcd.com/323/

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#58

Post by pmoriarty » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 5:51 PM UTC

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

cirgue wrote: post #2

I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page. When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone would take this aphorism literally.

Former copy editor here, would not recommend this approach for writing anything non-artistic. Imagine a coder or engineer following this recommendation: no plan, no structure, just throwing ideas willy-nilly. Eventually, you then have to sift through all the ideas, find what's good and what gels, and then re-write to make it coherent, narrative, and logical. You'll probably incur a lot of technical debt and overhead…

"Imagine a coder or engineer following this recommendation: no plan, no structure, just throwing ideas willy-nilly."

The only thing writers have in common is that they each have their own way of working.

Some plot meticulously, others don't plot at all. Some want to know where they're going, others prefer discovery and surprise.

Stephen King does not plot because he finds it boring. He does not want to know what's going to happen.

Here's Flannery O'Connor:

"When I started writing that story, I didn't know there was going to be a Ph.D. with a wooden leg in it. I merely found myself one morning writing a description of two women I knew something about, and before I realized it, I had equipped one of them with a daughter with a wooden leg. I brought in the Bible salesman, but I had no idea what I was going to do with him. I didn't know he was going to steal that wooden leg until ten or twelve lines before he did it, but when I found out that this was what was going to happen, I realized it was inevitable."

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/01/01/21/s...

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#59

Post by rewgs » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

If anything, I prefer the opposite. I can't write or be creative when I'm not sober, even if I've had just a little alcohol and am in all other respects sober. But, reviewing your work when inebriated can help you see it as another person would. Flaws and successes both become far more obvious.

Obviously not something to rely on or to make a regular part of your life, but hey, it's definitely a thing.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#60

Post by danillonunes » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 11:14 PM UTC

SafetyThird wrote: post #29

sifoobar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs. Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

Having a beer or two is not "sacrificing your health". And if liking the taste of alcoholic drinks counts as being "programmed", then so does every other preference and desire human beings have.

Having a beer or two occasionally won’t kill you. But making it a working routine, even with such a small quantity that won’t even make you drunk, will definitely have some impact in your health in the long-term.