“Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice • Hacker News Board

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#21

Post by bighi » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 3:56 PM UTC

cirgue wrote: post #2

I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page. When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone would take this aphorism literally.

It is a metaphor, and I am pretty sure that everyone reads it as such.

This post is about the author being against a thing that no one believes. It qualifies as a strawman, easily.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#22

Post by arkades » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 3:58 PM UTC

bighi wrote: post #21

cirgue wrote: post #2

I had always heard this used as kind of a metaphor: do whatever the hell you want to in writing, follow every thread, wander all over the place, believe your own bullshit, and just get all the ideas out of you and onto the page. When you edit, then it's time to worry about what your point actually is and how your reader will understand it. It's a little weird to me that someone would take this aphorism literally.

It is a metaphor, and I am pretty sure that everyone reads it as such. This post is about the author being against a thing that no one believes. It qualifies as a strawman, easily.

I always took it literally.

I can’t be the only person that did.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#23

Post by sifoobar » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:02 PM UTC

behringer wrote: post #17

feocco wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking things too literally seems to be a plague infecting many topics lately. I've interpreted the phrase similarly, do whatever you need to, just get "it" out of your head! Perfection is the enemy of good.

Hold on. I need to start a pointless semantics debate with you by taking what you said completely literally and it won't end until we've defined all the words.

The internet in a freaking nutshell, I'm so not going to miss that part once this pile of crap tips over.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#24

Post by sifoobar » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

nicky0 wrote: post #6

WhompingWindows wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former copy editor here, would not recommend this approach for writing anything non-artistic. Imagine a coder or engineer following this recommendation: no plan, no structure, just throwing ideas willy-nilly. Eventually, you then have to sift through all the ideas, find what's good and what gels, and then re-write to make it coherent, narrative, and logical. You'll probably incur a lot of technical debt and overhead…

As a coder I do a lot of my best work with a beer or two.

There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs.

Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#25

Post by wccrawford » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:06 PM UTC

arkades wrote: post #22

bighi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a metaphor, and I am pretty sure that everyone reads it as such. This post is about the author being against a thing that no one believes. It qualifies as a strawman, easily.

I always took it literally. I can’t be the only person that did.

Judging by the comments here, you aren't the only one who took it literally.

I'd never heard the advice before, but I'm pretty sure I'd have thought they were being literal, unless they also expanded upon the statement in a way that let me know it was a metaphor, not a literal statement.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#26

Post by fsloth » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:07 PM UTC

josu wrote: post #10

Bukowski seems to have written drunk many times.

Alcoholics can develop a tremendous tolerance to booze.

It does not mean anyone should emulate his lifestyle.

Bukowski describes his semi-fictional self Henry Chinaski as emotionally broken person, who medicates his pain with alcohol, horse racing and the like. He never actually glorifies this state of being, rather, he's brutally honest about who he is and how he behaves.

There can be poetry in damage, but it's tragic beauty, and it's the sort of beauty one should not try to emulate on purpose.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#27

Post by clubm8 » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

I think having a couple drinks or smoking a little weed can help you get the seeds of ideas. But I'm not talking about whipping out a laptop in the bar. More like telling yourself you're going to stop working for the night, have a bowl, watch a movie, maybe surf HN or Reddit a bit and read whatever you want. If you happen to have what feels like an idea or an aha moment, send yourself a short email.

I've done this a few times to great success, but I attribute it more to allowing myself an evening off to rest and relax rather than any specific substance. I'm also talking about moderation not getting completely wasted.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#28

Post by pohl » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:13 PM UTC

arkades wrote: post #22

bighi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a metaphor, and I am pretty sure that everyone reads it as such. This post is about the author being against a thing that no one believes. It qualifies as a strawman, easily.

I always took it literally. I can’t be the only person that did.

Scanning the rest of the thread, I can see examples of other folks who took it literally.

There may be multiple effects, here: one, that there will always be people who like to drink and will latch on to any idiom that gives them a social excuse to do so. My ex, whose undergraduate degree was journalism, used to say this phrase in a HHOS (ha-ha, only serious) manner. In retrospect, she just liked drinking.

Another effect that comes to mind is that there will always be some small percentage of people who – for whatever reason – do not understand metaphors or jokes or subtext.

Finally, this phrase in particular seems likely to propagate on its own without being attached to the underlying wisdom that was originally intended.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#29

Post by SafetyThird » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

sifoobar wrote: post #24

nicky0 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a coder I do a lot of my best work with a beer or two.

There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs. Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

Having a beer or two is not "sacrificing your health". And if liking the taste of alcoholic drinks counts as being "programmed", then so does every other preference and desire human beings have.

Re: “Write Drunk, Edit Sober” Is Bad Advice

#30

Post by booleandilemma » Fri, Dec 07, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

sifoobar wrote: post #24

nicky0 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a coder I do a lot of my best work with a beer or two.

There are better, less poisonous and destructive, drugs. Is it really worth sacrificing your health for? It doesn't even taste nice once you cut through the cultural programming to pretend otherwise.

It doesn't even taste nice

Citation needed. Maybe you just haven’t tried a good beer yet.