Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended • Hacker News Board

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#281

Post by flagfeedingusa » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

craigsmansion wrote: post #274

lettergram wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a lot of the reason a large part of the US is pro gun. A few hundred people with weapons can cause so much pain they can negotiate with a nation (see the troubles in Ireland, especially near the end). Point is, so long as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Australia doesn’t allow guns in its citizens hands any more. They gave up their rights, now the government can do what it wants witho…

> as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Or it can shoot up a pre-school. Only one of these things actually happens outside of adolescent power fantasies.

Please provide a source of all the preschools that have been shot up in america.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#282

Post by teraflop » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #21

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #14

Is there a (non-alarmist/non-defensive/non-partisan) summary available of what the bill actually contains and what its practical effects might be?

I'd recommend actually reading the bill to form your own conclusions. The main problem is that it mostly is a series of amendments, and many of them are quite unrelated. Most of the discussion is about the Technical Capability Notice section (which allows the government to compel a telecommunication provider, under threat of 5 years imprisonment, to create the ability to access communications otherwise inaccessible)…

I haven't read the whole thing, but my favorite part so far is 317E (1)(c), which says that the "listed acts" (the things the government can require you do to) include "installing, maintaining, testing or using software or equipment".

In other words, they can just hand you a flash drive containing malware and force you to install it. You're not allowed to say no, and you're not allowed to tell anybody.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#283

Post by ashildr » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:40 PM UTC

robryan wrote: post #97

mcv wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OpenVPN They'll probably want a backdoor in that too.

Careful criminals will surely be able to find a set of software that isn't affected. Australia isn't the US, only a small portion of software companies would have a large local presence here.

I’m sure that will change now.

From small portion to none. And basically Australian software developers are unemployable now.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#284

Post by lettergram » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:42 PM UTC

craigsmansion wrote: post #274

lettergram wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a lot of the reason a large part of the US is pro gun. A few hundred people with weapons can cause so much pain they can negotiate with a nation (see the troubles in Ireland, especially near the end). Point is, so long as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Australia doesn’t allow guns in its citizens hands any more. They gave up their rights, now the government can do what it wants witho…

> as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Or it can shoot up a pre-school. Only one of these things actually happens outside of adolescent power fantasies.

I actually provided an example where an armed populous did strike fear into the government. The IRA were targeting MPs and fairly quickly after that there were good Friday agreement discussions.

There are counter examples to every case, but my point was the Australian government can do what it wants because it's populous let's them.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#285

Post by mrguyorama » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #240

tossaccount123 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government's primary goal is to protect itself and continue growing like cancer. In many ways the citizens are it's greatest threat because they can vote to cut budget and the power of the political elites. These laws are a way to increase monitoring of citizens so problems can be squashed before they grow too big and threaten the government. Make no mistake, with the rise of ML governments will be able to crush…

Except that there's other countries where their governments don't seem to have these problems.

coughs in American

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#286

Post by Gaelan » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

daemin wrote: post #131

chris_wot wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, don't geoblock us. Just refuse to do actual business in Australia. Only allow us to download apps from the U.S. where such broken legislation is not in effect.

Don't think it will help since the agencies can force telcos to mitm the store fronts.

How do the App Store and play store react to bad HTTPS? Do they allow the user to trust?

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#287

Post by throwawaymanbot » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

A great day for those of us who are against Western Democracy. Bravo Australia. And as a bonus... the Symbiotic relationship with Chinese policy points on course for completion too! BRAVO!

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#288

Post by Ajedi32 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 6:25 PM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #236

dbetteridge wrote: post #61

Business opportunity for EU devs provide Australian businesses with PR and code review to ensure their software isn't backdoor'd

If an Australian developer was served with a Technical Capability Notice to build a backdoor, and then submitted code to be analysed by a third party who found it, the developer would literally be liable to be jailed for 15 years and a $50K fine for individuals or $10 million for companies. The law requires us to deliver exploits secretly and lie to everybody about it.

Maybe set up your release process so that independent code review _can't_ be bypassed? (Review company handles building and signing the application.)

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#289

Post by tossaccount123 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 6:31 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #240

tossaccount123 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government's primary goal is to protect itself and continue growing like cancer. In many ways the citizens are it's greatest threat because they can vote to cut budget and the power of the political elites. These laws are a way to increase monitoring of citizens so problems can be squashed before they grow too big and threaten the government. Make no mistake, with the rise of ML governments will be able to crush…

Except that there's other countries where their governments don't seem to have these problems.

where? From what I've seen Europe, UK, USA, Canada, and especially China are all moving in this direction of more privacy intrusions. Considering the West has traditionally offered the most freedom for its citizens I'd say things are trending towards authoritarian governments

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#290

Post by tossaccount123 » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

craigsmansion wrote: post #274

lettergram wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a lot of the reason a large part of the US is pro gun. A few hundred people with weapons can cause so much pain they can negotiate with a nation (see the troubles in Ireland, especially near the end). Point is, so long as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Australia doesn’t allow guns in its citizens hands any more. They gave up their rights, now the government can do what it wants witho…

> as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Or it can shoot up a pre-school. Only one of these things actually happens outside of adolescent power fantasies.

[flagged]