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Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

abc.net.au

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Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#271

Post by mtgx »

_Nat_ wrote: post #43

Some of the comments so far seem to suggest that this bill would require software to include backdoors. However, it looks like [the bill's PDF]( https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi... ) includes: > Division 7—Limitations > 317ZG Designated communications provider must not be required to implement or build a systemic weakness or systemic vulnerability etc. > (1) A technical assistance notice o…

There's one itsy bitsy issue with that whole "systemic weakness" thing. It's not defined in the law.

You'd think something like that would not be carelessly omitted by accident, no? What this means in practice is that virtually nothing they do will ever amount to that being a "systemic weakness", just like Obama kept saying post-Snowden revelations that there have been "no abuses" of intelligence powers and that nobody in the NSA did anything wrong (even after revelations of LOVEINT, etc came out).

An Australian government order for decryption could turn into another EternalBlue-type exploit affecting millions of PCs, and the government will likely still claim that wasn't a systemic issue because they "didn't intended it to be one" (as if spy agencies ever intend their backdoors to be used by rival nations - and yet that happens every time).

https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/648483/encryption-b...

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/govts-decryption-bill-can-onl...

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#272

Post by cyphar »

brokenmachine wrote: post #71
_Nat_ wrote: post #43

Some of the comments so far seem to suggest that this bill would require software to include backdoors. However, it looks like [the bill's PDF]( https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi... ) includes: > Division 7—Limitations > 317ZG Designated communications provider must not be required to implement or build a systemic weakness or systemic vulnerability etc. > (1) A technical assistance notice o…

They were going to supply a definition of "systemic weakness", but I can't find one in the bill itself. I'm patiently waiting for their proposed method of reading end-to-end encrypted messages without introducing a systemic weakness. But the meaning of words don't seem to matter anymore in the reality distortion field that is the Australian government. This is all supposedly to somehow make us more secure for Christm…

According to the proposed amendments (which weren't included) that had definitions, their definition of a systemic weakness is different to everyone else (yet another example of the doublespeak that this Bill contains). A systemic weakness is a weakness that is targeted, even if in order to target it you need to weaken your entire architecture in order to fulfil it. And to paraphrase the Greens MP, "the target could be as vague as all Victorians or everyone over the age of 30 and still not be considered a systemic weakness".

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#273

Post by CalRobert »

guitarbill wrote: post #233
CalRobert wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a kid I really wanted to see Australia. Kangaroos! Coral! Toilets that go backwards! Crocodile Dundee! (I was a kid, alright?) It just seems like a hotter, drier America at this point. New Zealand still looks lovely though. Maybe they could invade you?

Bit harsh, compared to America it's still saner day-to-day with healthcare, gun control, and very liveable cities with public transport. And it isn't like other western countries aren't thinking of doing something similar. While this is a bad law, being smug about it is the wrong reaction.

I don't mean to be smug. It's just kind of sad to see what's happened to a country with enormous soft power. Same goes for the US.

I wish I knew more western countries who were defending privacy, and the environment for that matter. For a period it kind of looked like Germany _might_ but that hasn't stood up (Who knows, maybe the Pirate Party will get a chancellor someday). The Nordics don't seem amazing either.

What does that leave us with? Some rocky archipelago in the middle of the Pacific? Developing nations that simply don't care or lack the ability to have meaningful enforcement? I'm really struggling to think of something.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#274

Post by craigsmansion »

lettergram wrote: post #265
tossaccount123 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government's primary goal is to protect itself and continue growing like cancer. In many ways the citizens are it's greatest threat because they can vote to cut budget and the power of the political elites. These laws are a way to increase monitoring of citizens so problems can be squashed before they grow too big and threaten the government. Make no mistake, with the rise of ML governments will be able to crush…

That’s a lot of the reason a large part of the US is pro gun. A few hundred people with weapons can cause so much pain they can negotiate with a nation (see the troubles in Ireland, especially near the end). Point is, so long as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government. Australia doesn’t allow guns in its citizens hands any more. They gave up their rights, now the government can do what it wants witho…

> as a populous is armed it can strike fear in the government.

Or it can shoot up a pre-school.

Only one of these things actually happens outside of adolescent power fantasies.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#275

Post by zanny »

sn41 wrote: post #245
jacques_chester wrote: post #162

If you are an Australian software engineer, you have one advantage that other nationalities do not: the E3 visa. It is a US working visa that is specifically reserved for Australians and consequently it is much easier to get than an H1B. My advice is that the Australian tech industry just got nuked from orbit, so come work in the USA. The pay is better, the work is more interesting and the tech companies actually hav…

I am not sure that migrating will help. If I read the bill right, it implies that every person providing any service used (or "likely to be used") in Australia is under legal obligation to insert these backdoors. I don't think it specifically mentions software developed in Australia. The bill seems to be a nightmare - it even says that the technical assistance request can be given orally. What the bloody ....? To me,…

Australia does not have the economy to force such a perverse violation of privacy on foreign business. If they try it, Google et al will be much better served pulling a Spain and blocking access in Oz than by complying.

The courts of most nations would laugh out the notion of extraditing their own citizens to Australia for hosting a website and not giving the AU government a backdoor to it.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#276

Post by wallace_f »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #260
colpabar wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How?

That so many people were against it?

Yea, that's what I meant. At least the people seemed to be overwhelmingly opposed to it, and trying to vote against it. RIP to internet points on that comment, lol.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#277

Post by sjapkee »

krautjakob wrote: post #135
krautjakob wrote: post #92

Ouch. Since I'm using Fastmail ... can anybody recommend a good alternative? I don't mind paying for a good and secure E-Mailprovider. Protonmail looks nice, but it does not seem to offer IMAP (because mails are end2end encrypted).

ProtonMail costs 8€ per month, almost twice as much as Fastmail. I'm not sure yet if I'm willing to pay that much. I guess I'll check out the other mail services listed on privacytools.io

It sends all letters to spam. It can only receive mail, but not send.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#278

Post by Lio »

brokenmachine wrote: post #199
pascalo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously wonder how that would work in practice? "Hey Joey, will you work on the fizzibizzi feature that does xyz?" I can't, I have other stuff to do? "What kind of stuff? This feature is the top priority for the whole team?" I JUST CAN'T TELL YOU OKAY!!!

Also, you can't ask anyone else on the team for help implementing it. These backdoors are going to be the worst code possible. What kind of crap quality code do you think a single dev under threat of jail time and the pressure of not being able to communicate with his co-workers or legal representation is going to pump out?

It'll be handy cover though if you get caught introducing your own backdoor code.

"Git says you were the person who introduced this backdoor into our banking platform. We could loose millions though that. Explain yourself now before I call the cops!"

[whilst tapping nose] "I'm sorry boss I've been told not to discuss that with anyone..."

"Say no more. I understand perfectly. ;) Carry on and don't tell the others."

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#279

Post by pentae »

steve_taylor wrote: post #25
cyphar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Australian software developer who has written encryption software in the past, I'm also very concerned. I'm also doubly concerned that projects will now reject my patches because of my nationality. What an amazing shitshow of a government.

I’m seriously considering moving from Australia to a country that isn’t part of the Five Eyes.

I'm quite happy in Thailand. Good quality of life, internet that's 3-10x faster than Australia, great lifestyle and very competitive tax rates.
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