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Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

abc.net.au

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Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#231

Post by cloverich »

isostatic wrote: post #100
brokenmachine wrote: post #36

Could an expat Australian dev be compelled to put backdoors in software even while overseas, under threat of being prosecuted when he returns? If so, Australians can't even be employed in foreign software companies.

Could any developer put backdoors in under promise of a suitcase of cash? If your review system fails because your Aussie developer "may be compromised", it fails because your $good_country developer may also be compromised.

The difference is the type of person that would do it for cash likely has other personality traits that make them at least somewhat easier to spot. If this could compel upstanding, trustworthy individuals to do the same, that's a bit harder to handle.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#232

Post by missjellyfish »

brokenmachine wrote: post #77
dbetteridge wrote: post #61

Business opportunity for EU devs provide Australian businesses with PR and code review to ensure their software isn't backdoor'd

And if it is, then what? Good idea though. Maybe some kind of Certification?

As if certifications would prove anything. Just look at what the German tüv certifies secure. They are missing even the most basic XSS stuff. I have no hope here.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#233

Post by guitarbill »

CalRobert wrote: post #211
healsjnr1 wrote: post #15

This is another thing that adds to my deep sense of shame to live in this country (sadly, that list is long and growing). This bill does nothing to prevent the kinds of things it is intended to prevent. The apps this law targets were engineered specifically to prevent this kind of interference. The idea that passing legislation will suddenly change that, magically allowing decryption of messages is beyond idiotic. Th…

When I was a kid I really wanted to see Australia. Kangaroos! Coral! Toilets that go backwards! Crocodile Dundee! (I was a kid, alright?) It just seems like a hotter, drier America at this point. New Zealand still looks lovely though. Maybe they could invade you?

Bit harsh, compared to America it's still saner day-to-day with healthcare, gun control, and very liveable cities with public transport.

And it isn't like other western countries aren't thinking of doing something similar. While this is a bad law, being smug about it is the wrong reaction.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#234

Post by emiliobumachar »

mikro2nd wrote: post #176
askaboutit wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re Australian but have offices in other countries. I believe they would move for the right reasons. This seems like a pretty big reason, considering they’re targeted at enterprise. But move where? UK will have this next, America does this without any laws at much greater effect and scale.

California. I had to agree to some changes to their ToS the other day (for Bitbucket) in which I agreed to dispute resolution under California law. I suppose that's a pretty good indication of their thinking. It's not like this legislation is unexpected or sudden.

Are the U.S. "gag orders" equivalent to this new Australian law?

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#235

Post by mcv »

cmroanirgo wrote: post #216
episteme wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the legislation say they can do this without justification though? Can they just ask for anyones information or does there need to be some sort of warrant?

"The Director-General of Security, the Director-General of the Australian Secret Intelligence Service, the Director-General of the Australian Signals Directorate or the chief officer of an interception agency may give a technical assistance request to a designated communications provider. • A technical assistance request may ask the provider to do acts or things on a voluntary basis..." Note that an interception agen…

I don't see how you're up for civil charges if you fail to respond. It's voluntary. The line about not being subject to civil liability sounds to me like your employer can't fire or sue you for undermining the security of their product if you're doing so in response to a request.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#236

Post by stephen_g »

dbetteridge wrote: post #61

Business opportunity for EU devs provide Australian businesses with PR and code review to ensure their software isn't backdoor'd

If an Australian developer was served with a Technical Capability Notice to build a backdoor, and then submitted code to be analysed by a third party who found it, the developer would literally be liable to be jailed for 15 years and a $50K fine for individuals or $10 million for companies.

The law requires us to deliver exploits secretly and lie to everybody about it.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#237

Post by magduf »

anotherhuman0 wrote: post #201

Somebody over on Reddit [1] went through all the submissions (there was a consultation period) and summarised and tallied them [2]. Fully 99%+ of submissions were against the bill. A sad day for democracy indeed. A church in Tasmania was in favour, because child pornography. 1. https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/a3j466/assistanc... 2. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dowpZ_Xtr1N_DgkHJN8i...

As usual, churches are harming society and holding as back as a species.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#238

Post by magduf »

brokenmachine wrote: post #171
episteme wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this, there is a lot of doomsaying in this thread but this reads to me that it would be possible to refuse requests based on these limitations.

There's doomsaying because this is doom. That's a pretty big call to refuse a secret request that you're not allowed to disclose to anyone, risking a lengthy jail term without the possibility of even seeking legal advice. War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, Ignorance Is Strength. Have a safe Christmas Australia! Papers please!!

It's interesting how the English-speaking countries seem to be doing their very best to emulate the novel "1984".

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#239

Post by mcv »

brokenmachine wrote: post #168
episteme wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the legislation say they can do this without justification though? Can they just ask for anyones information or does there need to be some sort of warrant?

It has to be under suspicion of a crime that attracts over 3 years jail (which is almost anything). They mentioned oversight of a "retired judge" and a "technology expert" in the autoplay video at the bottom of https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/security/inprincip...

Why a retired judge and not an active judge? Presumably because an active is required to obey certain standards and is legally independent. A retired judge is effective just some guy.

Re: Australian parliament passes encryption laws unamended

#240

Post by magduf »

tossaccount123 wrote: post #227
healsjnr1 wrote: post #15

This is another thing that adds to my deep sense of shame to live in this country (sadly, that list is long and growing). This bill does nothing to prevent the kinds of things it is intended to prevent. The apps this law targets were engineered specifically to prevent this kind of interference. The idea that passing legislation will suddenly change that, magically allowing decryption of messages is beyond idiotic. Th…

The government's primary goal is to protect itself and continue growing like cancer. In many ways the citizens are it's greatest threat because they can vote to cut budget and the power of the political elites. These laws are a way to increase monitoring of citizens so problems can be squashed before they grow too big and threaten the government. Make no mistake, with the rise of ML governments will be able to crush…

Except that there's other countries where their governments don't seem to have these problems.
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