Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#421

Post by AndrewUnmuted » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:20 AM UTC

gonvaled wrote: post #377

nostromo wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is wrong for the US to walk away from this treaty The Iran Nuclear Deal and the Paris Accords were not treaties. We have a process to ratify treaties in the US. The president approves a treaty and sends it to the senate to approve or reject. It's easy for president to make executive order agreements because it doesn't require approval from the senate (something Obama knew he couldn't get for either deal). But al…

What I read from this is: "the US has a convoluted process, which nobody understands, in order to commit to international agreements". It seems everybody, including head of states, thought the US had agreed to the treaties, but they had not (?), because of a technicality. I assume these technicalities can be applied to anything, any time, in order to justify pulling out of international agreements. Worse, instead of…

The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action [0] is not a treaty. That's not a matter of technicality, but of fact. I don't state this intending to defend the actions of the Trump administration. But when you get the basic facts so patently wrong, you do not do your argument any favors.

The staggering amount of these untruthful statements I read on a daily basis here and elsewhere on the internet is extremely disconcerting and increasing at an alarming rate. Please do not try to criticize Trump unless you are able to do so effectively. Posts like yours only make Trump's deceit and dishonesty harder to challenge, by damaging the credibility of anti-Trump individuals. Worse yet, they do nothing to further the cause of promoting positive change. Because if you want to do good, you do have to get things right.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Ac...

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#422

Post by nappy » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:22 AM UTC

dillondoyle wrote: post #359

qd6pwu4 wrote: post #340

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/a3hied/huawei_de... Keep in mind that US sanctions against foreign companies doing business with Iran are opposed by: The United Nations International Court of Justice, which ordered the US to withdraw sanctions, to which the US responded by pulling out of international agreements. The European Union, which has attempted to block its companies from complying with US sanctio…

Plus the arrested party is the daughter of the founder; I can't separate that fact when trying to infer intention here. I definitely feel anxious..

>>>Meng, one of the vice chairs on the company’s board and the daughter of company founder Ren Zhengfei, was arrested on Dec. 1 at the request of U.S. authorities and a court hearing has been set for Friday, a Canadian Justice Department spokesman said. Trump and Xi had dined in Argentina on Dec. 1 at the G20 summit.

She works for the company in question.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#423

Post by toyg » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:25 AM UTC

dlhw wrote: post #382

unfunco wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was arrested in Vancouver.

It's not completely unusual that criminals get arrested in allied countries through mutual cooperation, then get extradited for trial. This is happens with other countries as well besides the US. As to whether or not that's right, I personally think it's reasonable. Most all countries seek to enforce their laws regardless of location, especially when they deem a serious crime was committed against them.

No, most countries don’t try to enforce their laws like that. If she has “committed” these acts while in China, obeying Chinese law, there is simply no crime.

This is not “robbed a bank in country X and then fled to Y”, which is what international law-enforcement cooperation was built for. This is like “copied Windows in a country where piracy is legal”. It’s a massive overreach by US and Canada, but then again, they are not new to this (see Kim Dotcom et al).

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#424

Post by zavi » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:27 AM UTC

azernik wrote: post #394

qd6pwu4 wrote: post #340

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/a3hied/huawei_de... Keep in mind that US sanctions against foreign companies doing business with Iran are opposed by: The United Nations International Court of Justice, which ordered the US to withdraw sanctions, to which the US responded by pulling out of international agreements. The European Union, which has attempted to block its companies from complying with US sanctio…

> But arresting foreign nationals in other countries for violating US sanctions? In this case, the other country in question is Canada, which has made its own sovereign decision to also sanction Iran. Extradition treaties, including the US-Canada one, require that the conduct involved be a crime in both jurisdictions. If the Canadian courts decide that what she did is not a crime under Canadian law, she will get off.…

Worth mentioning that Canada has its own history of concerns with Huawei due to the Nortel debacle: https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hack...

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#425

Post by torstenvl » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:28 AM UTC

Down_n_Out wrote: post #419

torstenvl wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence exists if you care to look. Most of it is in the way of first-hand accounts, however. Seeing as how this particular forum lacks a subpoena power over defected Shi'ite militia members, I have no way of directly presenting you the evidence. Indirectly, however, you'll find the Internet is pretty replete. You can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro... Given the strident…

But yes, of course I know Shiite military are active in the middle east. I mean, it is their region, right? I can sense militarism in your terminology. Shiite militia, sunni militia? How about state-sponsored violence in the name of oil? You would not call that ‘militia’ would you? Since you copy pasted some news articles as evidence, here is some articles that argue otherwise for you: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/…

Well, since you accuse me of "throw[ing] nuclear . . . around" when I said no such thing, I hope you'll forgive me if I'm not convinced that it is I who should improve the nuance of my position. Particularly since none of the links you've posted support your position.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#426

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:29 AM UTC

huahaiy wrote: post #411

Coincidentally, a Stanford Chinese American scientist, Prof. Shoucheng Zhang ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoucheng_Zhang ), who discovered the Quantum Spin Hall effect that plays a big part in the recent Intel announcement of the next generation of chip design, was found dead on Stanford campus on Dec. 1st. Before he's death, Prof. Zhang went together with Huawei's CFO to attend a dinner in Argentina on Dec. 1st.…

[deleted]

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#427

Post by nappy » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:29 AM UTC

farseer wrote: post #375

qd6pwu4 wrote: post #340

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/a3hied/huawei_de... Keep in mind that US sanctions against foreign companies doing business with Iran are opposed by: The United Nations International Court of Justice, which ordered the US to withdraw sanctions, to which the US responded by pulling out of international agreements. The European Union, which has attempted to block its companies from complying with US sanctio…

They arrested the founder's daughter! I think it would be a good idea for American execs in China to take a long vacation home until this cools down. No one wants to become collateral damage between a great power rivalry.

Meng Wanzhou is a the CFO of Huawei[0]

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei/huawei-f...

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#428

Post by austincheney » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:29 AM UTC

_0w8t wrote: post #406

austincheney wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A few will say that Iran is threatening Middle East Peace. That is widely agree upon largely due to Iran's shipment of weapons and financing of external militant groups actively engaged in various conflicts. I am currently in the Middle East due to one or more of these conflicts. I am not stating any opinion for or against the recent (now ignored) agreement. > What is even wrong for the US is punishing foreign comp…

Saudi Arabia is known to finance Wahhabism groups around the world, its books for children say it is ok to kill non-Muslims and even Muslims of the “wrong kind”, the terorist behind 9/1/1 were from the country, ISIS got its money from SA and the country is engaged in mayor war in the Middle East. Yet SA is a friend of US and many western countries.

I don't believe this thread is about Saudi Arabia.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#429

Post by DyslexicAtheist » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:29 AM UTC

dlhw wrote: post #327

mtw wrote: post #302

Many are lost in technicalities here, if Canada has the right to arrest a businesswoman, if the US can stop a foreign company to do business with another country. Who cares? I'm partial to Iran because a multi-lateral treaty was signed. Iran stopped nuclear enrichment. In exchange, western countries pledged to provide economic relief and stop sanctions. It is said that Iran has been developing various weapons, but th…

Just because someone doesn’t agree with a law doesn’t mean that they should be able to break it without consequences. If she knowingly tried to export to Iran knowing it was forbidden by law, then she got what was coming to her. > What is even wrong for the US is punishing foreign companies wanting to do business in Iran. Perhaps there are technicalities to demonstrate a law in the US is broken. This makes sense for…

sanctions always benefit the oppressor (read the dictator). While sanctions (in theory) make it harder for a regime to earn money - in practice it leads to more poverty and hardship among the poor people (who don't care about politics). Sanctions usually lead to more anti-foreign sentiments and a boost to the radical power-bases within the sanctioned country. Walking a country (society) back from the effects of sanctions is incredibly tricky and requires more than just undoing the sanction.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#430

Post by ddalex » Thu, Dec 06, 2018, 9:32 AM UTC

cdash wrote: post #391

gonvaled wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I read from this is: "the US has a convoluted process, which nobody understands, in order to commit to international agreements". It seems everybody, including head of states, thought the US had agreed to the treaties, but they had not (?), because of a technicality. I assume these technicalities can be applied to anything, any time, in order to justify pulling out of international agreements. Worse, instead of…

Oh come on. That is just plain insulting to all the other parties of the agreement. They knew full well that they did not have a ratified treaty with the US and they were explicitly warned of that fact ahead of time. Just because people on the internet did not understand that doesn't mean the parties involved did not know that.

This argument reeks of "not my fault you were conned, you should have known I'm a conman"