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Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

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Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#311

Post by cygaril »

FabHK wrote: post #222
williamscales wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But on general grounds, why a Chinese company should comply with sanctions between US and Iran? In general, they don't have to. Only to the extent they want to continue doing business with the US do they have to comply.

Not that easy, as most international trade is denominated in USD, and nominally flows through the US, and makes it subject to US jurisdiction. Which is one reason there is a growing push for denominating trade in EUR or CNY instead.

USD transactions don't have to flow through the US, either nominally or in actuality.

This is obviously true in the case of cash transactions which consist of the physical transfer of small green pieces of paper in places outside the US.

It is also true of bank transactions, for example the vast Eurodollar market which has been in existence since the 1950s. If a non-US bank offers USD-denominated accounts and transfers funds from one of those accounts to another, this can and does happen entirely outside US jurisdiction.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#312

Post by bicubic »

EpicEng wrote: post #294
londons_explore wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country has things the culture is sensitive of. That might be child pornography for the USA, or drugs for Malaysia, or comments about the king for Thailand. They all have long prison sentences/death in their country, and light/no sentences in most of the rest of the world. All countries have tried to go after people breaking their culturally sensitive thing abroad, with varying levels of success.

>Every country has things the culture is sensitive of. That might be child pornography for the USA, or drugs for Malaysia, or comments about the king for Thailand. That doesn't make them morally equivalent. You can't defend 30 years in prison for being mean.

Morally equivalent? Who is the arbiter of moral valence?

This sense of moral superiority or having a better judgement than others, is exactly the property that blinds individuals and entire cultures to the absurdity of their own morals.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#313

Post by sho »

estsauver wrote: post #22

I would not look forward to being an American businessman abroad in China right now. I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws. That's been a pretty useful fiction for a long time, and in (some) of the developed world that's basically been how it's worked. But I really wonder how many shocks this system can take. I would bet money that an important US e…

> the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws

For those who follow China closely, this delusion doesn't really exist. Check out this article from 2010:

https://www.chinalawblog.com/2010/05/how_not_to_get_kidnappe...

https://www.chinalawblog.com/2012/06/how-not-to-get-kidnappe...

A simple search on that (excellent) blog will give you many, many more examples. Those articles are years old; it's only getting worse.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#314

Post by rdiddly »

ancorevard wrote: post #138
estsauver wrote: post #22

I would not look forward to being an American businessman abroad in China right now. I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws. That's been a pretty useful fiction for a long time, and in (some) of the developed world that's basically been how it's worked. But I really wonder how many shocks this system can take. I would bet money that an important US e…

"I think we're all used to the fiction that we live in a world that's totally governed by fairness and laws." Why are you so sure that this CFO did not break US trade law with regards to Iran? Let's bring it to a trial, that would be the fair thing, and that's what is taking place.

Since when are Chinese citizens governed by US laws though? Did I miss something there? There's a jurisdictional issue.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#316

Post by stickfigure »

mirimir wrote: post #305
adventured wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if some Western company would trade with Ukraine or Georgia in violation of Russian sanctions, should their representatives be arrested and extradited to Russia? The US is still the sole global superpower, it is still (yes, despite Trump) largely charged with maintaining the world order that has existed since WW2. Russia is not a superpower, its reach is regional and it has few allies. You'll see a lot of varied…

> Russia is not a superpower, its reach is regional and it has few allies. It still has lots of nuclear weapons. And probably more tactical nuclear weapons than the US does. But yes, it has fewer allies, for sure.

Nuclear weapons are difficult tools to apply in diplomatic contexts like this one.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#318

Post by Latteland »

wtfstatists wrote: post #231
analognoise wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why, yes, I'd rather we didn't do business with a country that has close to 1M people in forced reeducation camps. I am OK with not profiting from some things. A dystopian "social credit" police state, for example, is apparently very high on my list of places not to invest in, be associated with, or deal with at all.

Now thats a moral argument. In a realpolitikal world, X aggresses against Y because its in X's self interest, not because Y have been bad. Under this model, China _is_ suffering from aggressions just not from Apple/etc.

The US and China should behave morally. I disagree with the real politks strategy. I'm sure many countries want to behave that way, I'm glad there is still the rule of law in the US (even as our president tries to subvert it). The US doesn't always act morally, but often it does - our laws against us companies bribing people in other countries are a good thing even though it makes it harder for us companies to operate in other places.

I'm not naive enough to think that China will suddenly reform itself, end oppression against it's people and take complete advantage of its people's incredible energy, creativity and intelligence.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#319

Post by ajross »

xapata wrote: post #205
ajross wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could try to make a case about Android, but as you posit an open source internationally available source base would be hard to prosecute. This is surely about hardware.

License is different than copyright or ownership.

And neither have anything in particular to do with export laws, which are the subject at hand.

Re: Canada has arrested Huawei’s global chief financial officer in Vancouver

#320

Post by nostromo »

mtw wrote: post #302

Many are lost in technicalities here, if Canada has the right to arrest a businesswoman, if the US can stop a foreign company to do business with another country. Who cares? I'm partial to Iran because a multi-lateral treaty was signed. Iran stopped nuclear enrichment. In exchange, western countries pledged to provide economic relief and stop sanctions. It is said that Iran has been developing various weapons, but th…

> It is wrong for the US to walk away from this treaty

The Iran Nuclear Deal and the Paris Accords were not treaties. We have a process to ratify treaties in the US. The president approves a treaty and sends it to the senate to approve or reject.

It's easy for president to make executive order agreements because it doesn't require approval from the senate (something Obama knew he couldn't get for either deal). But all parties should know that these non-treaties can be undone without a second thought by a new president.

The nice thing about the American system is that while treaties are difficult to pass, they are more or less permanent.

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