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Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

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Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#121

Post by nl »

Bartweiss wrote: post #106
harshvladha wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between Signed out, and Incognito (no cookies)! + People generally tend to miss the point that Incognito doesn't prevent sharing the IP of the user. + I think DuckDuckGo's study missed out using VPN in their analysis. i.e., SignedIn vs Incognito vs (Incognito+VPN)

The "even in Incognito" part of this is certainly the biggest result I see. And I agree on the study limitation; attempting to clean up localization effects after the fact doesn't feel like a strong fix. It should be possible to isolate device and location effects by using multiple devices in one location, then VPN-ing one device to multiple 'locations'. One thing that caught my eye was Google's response about Incogn…

it does not personalize results for incognito searches using signed-in search history

To me this sounds reasonable. A very large number of searches are locality based, and it is entirely reasonable to localize them based on IP address (and - as you note - the device type).

It's also reasonable to customize based on recent (session based) search history (refinements, spelling corrections, etc).

The difference between this and personalization seems mostly about semantics IMHO.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#122

Post by nl »

a1369209993 wrote: post #111
lugg wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likewise matching DCP-L2550DW to pages with DCP-L2550BW or something similar. It is so obviously specific a no results answer is better than a misleading one. I think this is due to people more often than not finding the top page useful regardless which just reinforces the link. But it's super annoying to find you've just waited for a 300mb download of the wrong driver.

I think this is a lot more defensible. Eg (real example) if I search for 74HCT350, I would probably be okay, if not actively happy, to get results for 74ACT350 (a socket-equivalent chip in a somewhat faster logic family). It's much less defensible if "DCP-L2550DW" is quoted, since that's a clear indication that you want the exact string, but it's still better than outright ignoring half your query the way google does…

I agree very strongly with this. I don't understand why people complain about having to read the search results.

In so many cases slightly different product numbers are equivalent and differ in things like the market they are for, or the color, or something else you may or may not care about.

It seems to me that hiding these results required both Google to do mind reading and to decode spec sheets to see if they match what you had in mind.. all from a single string of semi-random characters.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#123

Post by garysahota93 »

frandroid wrote: post #120
Bartweiss wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "even in Incognito" part of this is certainly the biggest result I see. And I agree on the study limitation; attempting to clean up localization effects after the fact doesn't feel like a strong fix. It should be possible to isolate device and location effects by using multiple devices in one location, then VPN-ing one device to multiple 'locations'. One thing that caught my eye was Google's response about Incogn…

Google definitely personalizes based on geoIP location, that's not exactly a secret.

It's not a secret, but I don't think we're doing enough to keep this on the forefront of people's minds. Every time I hear this, I am shocked! Only to then remember I already knew this but somehow let it slide...

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#124

Post by singingboyo »

garysahota93 wrote: post #123
frandroid wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google definitely personalizes based on geoIP location, that's not exactly a secret.

It's not a secret, but I don't think we're doing enough to keep this on the forefront of people's minds. Every time I hear this, I am shocked! Only to then remember I already knew this but somehow let it slide...

I mean, what's the difference between this and customizing billboard ads based on where the billboard is?

IMO the issue is not google using IP-based location info. The issue (if there really is one) is people assuming/believing the internet hides their location.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#125

Post by 51lver »

jammygit wrote: post #70

My search results have been personalized for years without being logged in. I didn't realize this was surprising.

It's a little more shocking when they can identify 3 different users on 1 pc behind one ip in roughly 1 search.

Seriously, freaks me out. I search on youtube for airplanes on the computer tv and suddenly a ton of music I like pops up. Kid searches for some kids show, and many more pop up. Wife searches for reviews or some shitty trash tv shows, and she get's all her interests recommended next. They know us on one computer on one ip without being logged in.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#126

Post by 51lver »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #21
stupidbird wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you switch IPs, browsers, computers, etc every time you close the tab too? If not, Google tracks you.

Even if you did all that Google will track you. Whether they match up all your identities or not is another story.

Bring a laptop from your home back to your folks place and I bet they can make the connection...

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#127

Post by jakelazaroff »

harshvladha wrote: post #40
icebraining wrote: post #12

Welcome to 2009, I guess "Today we're helping people get better search results by extending Personalized Search to signed-out users worldwide (...)" https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/personalized-search-...

There's a difference between Signed out, and Incognito (no cookies)! + People generally tend to miss the point that Incognito doesn't prevent sharing the IP of the user. + I think DuckDuckGo's study missed out using VPN in their analysis. i.e., SignedIn vs Incognito vs (Incognito+VPN)

Even with a VPN it's possible to somewhat reliably fingerprint browsers, no? You can check user agent, screen size, installed plug-ins, etc.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#128

Post by nielsbot »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #127
harshvladha wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between Signed out, and Incognito (no cookies)! + People generally tend to miss the point that Incognito doesn't prevent sharing the IP of the user. + I think DuckDuckGo's study missed out using VPN in their analysis. i.e., SignedIn vs Incognito vs (Incognito+VPN)

Even with a VPN it's possible to somewhat reliably fingerprint browsers, no? You can check user agent, screen size, installed plug-ins, etc.

Yes, see antsar's comment below:

Try this: https://panopticlick.eff.org/

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#129

Post by Wowfunhappy »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #116
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking for proof of a negative. DuckDuckGo just put out a post criticizing Google for personalizing search results. They're a small company without many resources, and privacy has been their primary selling point from the get-go. Yes, DuckDuckGo could also be personalizing their own results, but if they were and people found out, there's risk of a significant outcry. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm i…

They are VC-funded and make money selling ads. Stop idolising DDG as the true and only fighter for privacy. Sooner or later they will bow down to Ad Cash or fuck up otherwise.

It's not about company size or profitability, it's about words + past actions. As I mentioned, I made a similar argument recently about Apple.

If you assume all organizations are equally ready to ignore user privacy, what do you use? Do you program your own everything or do you only use FSF-approved software whose source code you have personally examined and compiled?

It's all about degrees.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#130

Post by Wowfunhappy »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #66
ur-whale wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have switched to DuckDuckGo a long time ago, there basically is no proof they're actually not doing exactly what Google does.

Do you mean personalizing search results? IF so, that's incredibly easy to check: run the same searches on computers in separate physical locations and compare results.

The article mentioned Google tracking users even inside browser sessions. So I'm not sure how to replicate this individually without a significant amount of effort.
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