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C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

reasonabletheology.org

81–90 of 179 posts

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#81

I rather enjoyed this essay, not because I am into theology, but because I also see the value of old books. I think that I am a bit of a heretic (if I can use that word in a theology thread) because I strongly believe that there is advantage to be gained by reading old books of... science! It is often presumed that because we learn new things as time goes on, and old theories are discarded as new information comes to…

One of my favorite examples of this "genre" is Claude Shannon's "Communication Theory of Secrecy Systems," from 1949.

http://netlab.cs.ucla.edu/wiki/files/shannon1949.pdf

Speaking as someone who is not a formally trained cryptographer, most introductory material on the topic is pretty terrible. Finally stumbling across Shannon's early work, many years after starting in security, was like a breath of fresh air.

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#82
post #37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect 'inimino is referring to Euclid's "Elements" http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21076/21076-h/21076-h.htm

Indeed. Not only do you learn geometry, but you participate in the same understanding of geometry that all later mathematicians started from. I've always encouraged reading Euclid, Newton, Einstein. In my humble opinion, mathematics is much easier to understand historically, as it developed, and the best historical perspective comes from primary sources. I must acknowledge, however, that for whatever reason very few…

It is indeed a widely held opinion that most (but not all, of course) original works are not the best sources to learn from. Over time ideas become clearer, better explanations arise, etc. Professional educators and instructors are important, too.

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#83
post #52

Time is a fantastic filter. When I was cleaning out my grandparents attic I found a few dozen old books from the 30s and 40s. Wanting to see if they had any value I searched Amazon Ebay and even Google. I could find no record of them having ever even existed. I opened a few of them and found out why. They sucked.

Many (probably most) books today suck too. Not to say there aren't a lot of modern, quality books out there, but I think there's a boundless amount of new, bad books.

I discussed this problem with a professor-friend (philosophy of science) of mine. He made two solid points:

(1) The pressure and rapidity of publishing - for many authors - means less time spent on individual projects.

(2) Your expectations as a reader partially determine your judgement as to how much value a book has. As your expectations increase...

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#84

This was life-changing for me. I wanted to learn about spirituality through a different lens than the Catholic upbringing that constrained my mind and the rampant "spirituality is synonymous with Christianity" that I find in the U.S. I went out and read a handful of ancient religious texts from all of the world. This led me to see that throughout the course of human history, tribes from all over the world have espous…

In the same way, every Catholic around me reads "Catholic" books written in the past 20 years that are 90% watered down and 10% quotes from older books. So imagine my surprise when I found all those old books they were quoting were easily available on archive.org and easily installable on my phone (the PDF copies only) and in easy to understand English translations, despite being written 200, 500, 1000, 1700 years ag…

I'm not Catholic, but my most revelatory reading this year has been Rene Girard's (a Catholic philosopher/theologian) 20-40 year old books. I guarantee they're not flowery pamphlets, they're mind-blowing.

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#85

Time is a fantastic filter. When I was cleaning out my grandparents attic I found a few dozen old books from the 30s and 40s. Wanting to see if they had any value I searched Amazon Ebay and even Google. I could find no record of them having ever even existed. I opened a few of them and found out why. They sucked.

And yet, due to a myriad confluence of historical accidents, there are innumerable texts which become "de-canonized" with the centuries. And are eagerly awaiting a new audience to once again gain reverence.

Consider Caxton's Polycronicon printed at the dawn of movable type, circa 1490. An encyclopedia of universal history, it deserves no less a place on the bookshelf than Gawain, Beowulf or the Mabinogian. But few will make reference to it today. Nor the thousands of other lost texts of the period known as the incunabula, the first half-century of transmission via printing press. A time in history that saw an explosion in literacy and design experimentation.

http://www.psymon.com/

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#86

This was life-changing for me. I wanted to learn about spirituality through a different lens than the Catholic upbringing that constrained my mind and the rampant "spirituality is synonymous with Christianity" that I find in the U.S. I went out and read a handful of ancient religious texts from all of the world. This led me to see that throughout the course of human history, tribes from all over the world have espous…

That's very cool. I'm just now attempting to study religion from a historical standpoint myself, and have been finding myself drawn to older sources as well. Though I must ask, can you explain what you mean by "non-duality"? Is duality something you experienced from the Catholic perspective? I ask because I actually find myself very drawn to some ancient texts from Gnostic perspectives (Book of Thomas, some Mandean texts) and "duality" as a part of nature seems to be a core belief to them (light vs darkness, good vs evil, knowledge vs ignorance). Is that the same type of duality you're referring to, or is the term broader than I'm understanding it to be?

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#87
I wish US high schools could spend more time on primary sources like this. I only bought myself a copy of "The Federalist Papers" (and another collections with anti-federalist writings too) a few years ago, but I keep going back to it to compare how issues they faced at the founding of our nation still can relate to issues we're having today. Some of the issues they discuss are comically not applicable today, but even reading those essays gives me insight into how even very intelligent people can be utterly blind to the future.

It's amazing how much more I learned from those essays than from years of formal classes on the topic of government though. Just getting the author's perspective from them directly, and realizing that they absolutely were thinking deeply about the impact, source, and validity of their arguments brings me so much closer to understanding the way things were designed than textbooks which reduce complex philosophical arguments down to their trivial outcomes like "So-and-So opposed a centralized bank".

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#88
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of survivor bias there, however. A lot of works that were under-appreciated during their time had their extemporaneous advocates and promoters that had their own motivations that often had little to do with appreciation for the work. If Kafka's editor had listened to Kafka and burned his works instead of making sure they got on as many bookshelves as possible, or if Van Gogh didn't have the close relati…

It would be survivorship bias if we assumed, based on the old books we have, that all old books on average were better than modern books. I don't think that's the argument being made here.

Let's assume for a moment that all famous old books are good books. We might then say that time is a great filter because all of the old books we know of are good books.

However, it might be that time actually has a false negative rate of 99.9%. Almost all of the great old books are filtered out by time. In that case, time probably sucks as a filter. But then again, if your only goal is "read only great books," time is still a useful filter even if it has a terrible false negative rate, since it's irrelevant to you that there are lots of other books being excluded, so long as you get a sufficient supply of good books.

Re: C.S. Lewis on the Reading of Old Books

#89
"When I was thirteen years of age we all went on a party of pleasure to the baths near Thonon; the inclemency of the weather obliged us to remain a day confined to the inn. In this house I chanced to find a volume of the works of Cornelius Agrippa. I opened it with apathy; the theory which he attempts to demonstrate and the wonderful facts which he relates soon changed this feeling into enthusiasm. A new light seemed to dawn upon my mind, and bounding with joy, I communicated my discovery to my father. My father looked carelessly at the title page of my book and said, "Ah! Cornelius Agrippa! My dear Victor, do not waste your time upon this; it is sad trash."

"If, instead of this remark, my father had taken the pains to explain to me that the principles of Agrippa had been entirely exploded and that a modern system of science had been introduced which possessed much greater powers than the ancient, because the powers of the latter were chimerical, while those of the former were real and practical, under such circumstances I should certainly have thrown Agrippa aside and have contented my imagination, warmed as it was, by returning with greater ardour to my former studies. It is even possible that the train of my ideas would never have received the fatal impulse that led to my ruin. But the cursory glance my father had taken of my volume by no means assured me that he was acquainted with its contents, and I continued to read with the greatest avidity."

"When I returned home my first care was to procure the whole works of this author, and afterwards of Paracelsus and Albertus Magnus. I read and studied the wild fancies of these writers with delight; they appeared to me treasures known to few besides myself..."

-- Mary Shelly, Frankenstein

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/84

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