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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#231

Post by jordache »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #106
_Microft wrote: post #77

I grant that there's a lack of electric buses and trucks in western countries but how is a taxi different from a normal car? Build electric cars and you can have electric taxis? There are counter examples though. The Deutsche Post , the german postal service, wanted to electrify their fleet and bought the company StreetScooter GmbH [0] because there were no other eletric vans available to replace their VW Caddy s. Th…

> but how is a taxi different from a normal car? Build electric cars and you can have electric taxis? Aside from interior layout and a few things like a sign on top, the expected design for a London Black cab is a large, tall sedan, capable of city driving for many hours of the day, and with a very small turning circle. The new electric model London black Cab is https://www.theelectrictaxi.co.uk/ https://www.standard…

>The new electric model London black Cab is https://www.theelectrictaxi.co.uk/

Why is that marketing site even needed? It's a product for a captive market

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#232

Post by peterwwillis »

joncrane wrote: post #220

I've heard that the environmental impact of building the vehicles (the batteries in particular) and charging them outweighs the savings in emissions. Basically batteries use lots of toxic chemicals and require LOTS of energy during manufacture. Also isn't most electricity generation in China still based on burning coal? Have any experts done any analysis to see what environmental benefit this brings, if any?

> Also isn't most electricity generation in China still based on burning coal?

Xi Jinping is anti-coal, meaning China is anti-coal. The government's been converting coal power sources to natural gas and getting homeowners and businesses to do the same. In one year the level of the most harmful pollution went down by 33% throughout the region, 54% in Beijing alone.

> Have any experts done any analysis to see what environmental benefit this brings, if any?

The 4.8 million cars in Beijing are the second biggest cause of air pollution there, so switching to electric would significantly limit this source.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-02/u-s-china...

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#233

Post by sschueller »

Lukas_Skywalker wrote: post #99
paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

They have been and still are in use in most Swiss cities. They have a backup ICE for emergencies, but mostly run on electricity. Works really well, and makes for a rather silent ride.

Most electric buses in Zürich now have had their ICE backup engines replaced with batteries.

They are also now able to disconnect and reconnect from the wires from inside the cabin via button press at specific locations.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#234

Post by Reason077 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #207
D_Alex wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply because electric buses are the superior technology right now. Metro bus services is actually an ideal application for electric vehicles: The needed range is short, charging facilities can be in one place (depot), stop-start driving suits the propulsion system, and low noise and no emissions are a bonus in the highly populated areas.

Not to mention infastructutal redundancy - trolleys are a bit worst of both worlds in that they require roads, tracks, and overhead wires while often causing manuevering and congestion issues. They are kind of awkward road sharing wise. They are a way of dodging the battery expenses but unfortunately have their own set of issues. If you already have a great cable car infastructure by all means keep on doing it but th…

You are confusing your terminology here. Trolley busses, trams, and cable cars are all different things.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#235

Post by moduspol »

thinkcontext wrote: post #223
moduspol wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, it's a pipe dream. If gas, energy, or home heating prices double, whoever's in power is going to be voted out. It's not the capture of political bodies that drives that--it's normal people. It'll take a suspension of democracy or a long time to make a measurable impact on climate change.

Its not impossible, vehicle fuel prices in Europe are over twice what they are in the US because of taxes.

People don't use nearly as much vehicle fuel in Europe as they do in the US.

More clearly stated, my point is that what's really needed is people to adjust their consumption downward dramatically, but the taxes necessary to cause that will be politically infeasible.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#236

Post by AlexC04 »

joncrane wrote: post #220

I've heard that the environmental impact of building the vehicles (the batteries in particular) and charging them outweighs the savings in emissions. Basically batteries use lots of toxic chemicals and require LOTS of energy during manufacture. Also isn't most electricity generation in China still based on burning coal? Have any experts done any analysis to see what environmental benefit this brings, if any?

That sounds like the kind of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) that would be really easy for motivated parties to spread.

If organizations like the Competitive Enterprise Institute & Heritage Foundation, are willing to produce videos with slogans like "Carbon emissions, they call it pollution, we call it life"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sGKvDNdJNA

Then maybe wait for a proper study by a reputable source before you buy in to that FUD whole hog.

"I heard vaccinations are actually bad for you" https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/health/russia-trolls-vaccine-...

"I heard the CIA invented AIDS as a way to keep black people in poverty" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infektion

Who does your anti-EV talking points serve?

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#237

Post by catbird »

swebs wrote: post #110
paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

They got rid of them in Philadelphia because people hated driving over the tracks and them ruining their tires. Some routes upgraded to to electric buses that still use the existing overhead power lines. I'd assume the driver has to be careful to stay within certain tolerances since he's no longer on a track.

Philadelphia still has trolleys running on tracks, though maybe less routes than before.

http://www.septa.org/maps/trolley/city.html

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#238

Post by bluGill »

jchanimal wrote: post #221
bluGill wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tightly controlled economy is better able to do whatever the leaders are interested in. The capitalists response is yes, but a less regulated economy gets there only a little slower anyway, while because it is trying more things it can get to something better instead. It is easy to see what we gained by whatever was done in the past, but it is hard to see what we gave up because we didn't choose to do something els…

Assuming the best ideas can get funding.

Of course. However your have a better chance because whoever funds the best idea gets the rewards for doing so. It is chance in the end.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#239

Post by moltar »

Reason077 wrote: post #168
agsdfgsd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are a few overhead wires actually more expensive than the massive batteries electric buses require? They are certainly less damaging to the environment.

If building a new network from scratch or replacing diesel, then yes, there is no doubt that battery electrics are cheaper. Also, batteries are charged overnight, allowing cheap off-peak energy to be used. The argument about batteries being damaging to the environment mostly relates to cobalt mining. However, buses typically use iron-phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries which contain no cobalt.

Even better. An electric bus in Montreal takes 5 minutes to charge for about an hour of route driving. The charger is at the end of the route. While the driver is having a break, the bus is charged.

Source: I asked the driver.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#240

Post by gok »

paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

On-street trolleys are the worst of all worlds. They require the infrastructure construction of a metro system, but can get stuck in traffic and can't be rerouted. Just use buses or build a real train system.
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