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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#101

Post by nolok »

paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

Quite a few cities in France have been developping trams line this past couple of decade.

In "Ile de France" (Paris and its metropolitan area) the last tram line was closed in 1938 but it's coming back and there are now 14 lines planned, 10 of which are already opened (8 of those opened between 2006 and 2017), the oldest one opened in 1992 and the last one in the current plan should open in 2023.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramways_in_%C3%8Ele-de-France

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#102

Post by gonvaled »

A2017U1 wrote: post #52
InGodsName wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works in china because CCP thinks, "if it's better for business/control/money/people, we'll do it, doesn't matter if some of us loses in this" Basically, if you are in goverment and you've stock holding in Gas cars, and they are lobbying, gas cars stay. But in China, CCP will simply acquire controlling interest in new winning EV firm if it's better from the perspective of power/money/control over an industry, so t…

They are exporting more petrol vehicles than ever before.

That's because those the countries importing them make that proposition economical.

For the Chinese, producing a car is like producing a hammer: only the production costs count.

Driving a polluting car in China seems to be getting more expensive. That's why they do it less.

Driving a polluting car in, say, the US, is not getting more expensive, so they import those cars.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#103

Post by gonvaled »

qwertay wrote: post #82
A2017U1 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are exporting more petrol vehicles than ever before.

The air quality in other countries doesn't effect them as much.

First, air moves, so that is not totally correct.

Second, the local air quality is related to local policy: if other countries want to improve their local air quality, local policies are needed.

China seems to be working in that direction, although they are by far not yet there.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#104

Post by chiefalchemist »

_Microft wrote: post #77

I grant that there's a lack of electric buses and trucks in western countries but how is a taxi different from a normal car? Build electric cars and you can have electric taxis? There are counter examples though. The Deutsche Post , the german postal service, wanted to electrify their fleet and bought the company StreetScooter GmbH [0] because there were no other eletric vans available to replace their VW Caddy s. Th…

I'm not sure of the exact details but taxis are different. Think of any big city taxi - NYC, London, etc. - you've ever gotten into. Bigger. Boxier. More trunk space, etc.

Now consider GM's plant closing in the USA. Plants are configured to produce certain vehicles. Volume matters.

Yes, cars and taxis are close, but for a number of reasons probably not as close as you think.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#105

Post by mymythisisthis »

paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

Toronto still has lots of trams left, and is building light rail. Unfortunately we got ride of hundreds of electric buses in the 1990s.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#106

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

_Microft wrote: post #77

I grant that there's a lack of electric buses and trucks in western countries but how is a taxi different from a normal car? Build electric cars and you can have electric taxis? There are counter examples though. The Deutsche Post , the german postal service, wanted to electrify their fleet and bought the company StreetScooter GmbH [0] because there were no other eletric vans available to replace their VW Caddy s. Th…

> but how is a taxi different from a normal car? Build electric cars and you can have electric taxis?

Aside from interior layout and a few things like a sign on top, the expected design for a London Black cab is a large, tall sedan, capable of city driving for many hours of the day, and with a very small turning circle.

The new electric model London black Cab is https://www.theelectrictaxi.co.uk/

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/first-electric-black-...

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/98450/new-tx-electric...

They are assembled in the UK, but the maker is now owned (not sure if part or all) by Geely, a Chinese company.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#107

Post by gonvaled »

pjc50 wrote: post #68
Tepix wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet none (?) have a tax on kerosine. Which is arguably worse for the environment for multiple reasons. Airplanes are a lot less efficient than buses, ships or trains. Also airplanes release their exhausts up in the atmosphere which is worse for global warming.

There's a problem in that it's effectively banned by international treaty as part of the ICAO. I believe people are working on changing this but it will be slow going.

It requires full international cooperation, otherwise carries will tend to tank where taxes are lower. Not that that is always possible: if you land in Frankfurt and your deposit is empty, you will still need to tank in Frankfurt.

But, without international cooperation, fly routes could become distorted because of kerosine tax effects.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#108

Post by emptyfile »

elorant wrote: post #87

We have electric buses in Greece since the mid 50s. The key difference with modern era buses is that they don't work with batteries but rely on an infrastructure of aerial power lines to which they connect with two antennas protruding from the top of the vehicle. One thing I remember from whenever I was on board them is how damn slow they move. Occasionally the antennas will disconnect which means the driver will has…

Different thing from a true electric bus.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#109

Post by Milner08 »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #55
Brakenshire wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see them regularly in London, I’d say 5% of taxis have switched or thereabouts. It only launched in the last year.

That's great to hear, I have to admit it's over a year since I was last in London. That said, the odds of getting run over by a black cab were already quite high so hopefully they're not totally silent. ;)

There are also a few electric-only buses rolling out. Along with a lot of them being hybrid with auto start-stop now so they aren't polluting while in traffic. Id like to see more of them move to electric only though!

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#110

Post by swebs »

paganel wrote: post #85

Why don't we bring trolleybuses back? They rock! You don't need polluting batteries in order to run them, just some copper to put the wires up, and we've been master of this "technology" for almost a century now. Also, we should extend or re-introduce the tram network.

They got rid of them in Philadelphia because people hated driving over the tracks and them ruining their tires. Some routes upgraded to to electric buses that still use the existing overhead power lines. I'd assume the driver has to be careful to stay within certain tolerances since he's no longer on a track.
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