Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got a code violation warning last month for not mowing my front yard and having overgrown "landscape weeds" This is ... fascinating for me. For a number of reasons. Like, it's the exact opposite of what I do with my 'lawn' and makes me feel naive and like I've been living under a rock for not realizing there are places where people actually get warnings for this. Can you elaborate in what kind of place you live, wh…
On top of what jazzyjackson said, a lot of people correlate well-manicured lawns with property value. For instance, quite a few place won't allow vegetable gardens in the front yard. It gives an impression of poverty. Which makes me wander what is the best word for modern suburban aesthetic. Sterility?
Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
151–160 of 181 posts
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree with your first point. I pointed out that the evidence is overwhelming that Young Earth Creationism is scientifically baseless. In that case, I have no problems with pointing to a "tear it down" commentary rather than try to read the primary source, depending on the specifics of the commentary. Which source am I supposed to be evaluating? cryptonector only pointed to https://wattsupwiththat.com/ . Am I sup…
You ask good questions, and raise good points. Since one can't read all the primary sources, how can you decide who to trust? In this case, I don't think there is a simple and logically defensible answer. Normally, your best bet would be to trust that the recognized experts in the field probably have it right. But I think Climate Science is so politicized at this point that unless you can sit down and have a beer at…
It's the same sort of propaganda effort which fought against the recognition of the link between cigarettes and lung cancer. It's the same sort of effort which tries to get creationism in its varied forms taught as part of a science education in schools.
The goal of which is to muddy the waters, and cause people to throw up their hands and declare a pox on both their houses.
Is McIntyre going to publish his objections? Or just leave it as a blog post on a site mostly read by sympathetic readers? Since he's 'criticized [this sort of analysis] from [his] beginning in this field', surely he's published his objections, yes? Or someone else has?
Why does he refer to "Climategate" twice ("In the weeks prior to Climategate" and "On this day in 2009, a few weeks before Climategate") when multiple inquiries by US and UK organizations found no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct? Doesn't he realize that that choice of term is politicized, and the use of it likely to be used as a flag to categorize the user in the same box as creationists and tobacco lobbyists?
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
By how much? Any serious analyses online about this? What would a runaway greenhouse effect realistically look like? Venus?
You can find a lot of information in threads that have been discussed here: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=permafrost&sort=byPopularity&p...
Doesn't Methane burn? Maybe another energy source for the future...
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
You ask good questions, and raise good points. Since one can't read all the primary sources, how can you decide who to trust? In this case, I don't think there is a simple and logically defensible answer. Normally, your best bet would be to trust that the recognized experts in the field probably have it right. But I think Climate Science is so politicized at this point that unless you can sit down and have a beer at…
As best as I can tell, the politicization of climate science is a deliberate action by those opposed to the actions which will result from accepting the validity of its conclusions. It's the same sort of propaganda effort which fought against the recognition of the link between cigarettes and lung cancer. It's the same sort of effort which tries to get creationism in its varied forms taught as part of a science educa…
McIntyre's blog post starts "The PAGES (2017) North American network consists entirely of tree rings.".
The 2017 article "A global multiproxy database for temperature reconstructions of the Common Era" by the PAGES2k Consortium at https://www.nature.com/articles/sdata201788 says:
> While the M08 database contains 75% more records than this collection, these records are overwhelmingly land-based, from the Northern Hemisphere, and relatively short. Indeed, the M08 database is disproportionately composed of tree rings from North America, many of which start after 1000 CE, so that fewer than 100 records reach beyond this date. In contrast, the present collection contains 176 records out to 1000 CE, most of which are not tree-based.
I assume "records" is not the same as "series", because the Supplementary Table spreadsheet mostly lists tree ring data for North America. However, it does list 12 lake sediment series and one speleothem series. For example, NAm_065 is "Late Holocene Climate Changes in Eastern North America Estimated from Pollen Data" from https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/quaternary-research/... .
How am I supposed to reconcile McIntyre's statement "entirely of tree rings" with the publication?
If tree rings are to be ignored, wouldn't the right question be, what does the analysis look like using only the non-tree ring data for North America?
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your dichotomy is false. In a world with global warming there would be no humans. It's an extinction level event and few of us seem to understand it.
> In a world with global warming there would be no humans. That statement is preposterously absurd. Global warming is a serious issue. Ludicrous statements such as the above just detract from reasonable debate.
Acidic oceans. Too much methane in our atmosphere and other “great” things, that have all happened in earths past.
Even if it doesn’t get to the Roland Emmerich version, which I agree we likely won’t, climate change will still displace billions of people. Just imagine how a world that couldn’t handle a few million refugees will react to a billion.
Climate change is the biggest and most important threat that humans ever faced, and we’re rioting to stop the solutions. I’m truly not sure where you or others find your optimism in that. Is it the falling man syndrome? After the first two floors you felt fine, and you even turned your back to the approaching ground, because it didn’t make you feel good?
I agree that the Roland Emmerich version is absurd, but we frankly would benefit immensely by acting as though it wasn’t.
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I got a code violation warning last month for not mowing my front yard That sucks. Why do such restrictions exist? My whole front yard is ivy and bushes. There's no mowing that, and it looks very pleasant (and the frogs like it, too).
How? Homeowners associations. I planted milkweed in an empty side yard and was cited for the same thing. Also I was cited for having a browning lawn. My neighbors brought me a bag of weed-and-feed (basically lawn seed with pesticide) because he thought I did not know how to “do the lawn.” Very sweet, but all I wanted was not to kill everything. Wasn’t allowed.
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
You ask good questions, and raise good points. Since one can't read all the primary sources, how can you decide who to trust? In this case, I don't think there is a simple and logically defensible answer. Normally, your best bet would be to trust that the recognized experts in the field probably have it right. But I think Climate Science is so politicized at this point that unless you can sit down and have a beer at…
As best as I can tell, the politicization of climate science is a deliberate action by those opposed to the actions which will result from accepting the validity of its conclusions. It's the same sort of propaganda effort which fought against the recognition of the link between cigarettes and lung cancer. It's the same sort of effort which tries to get creationism in its varied forms taught as part of a science educa…
It's an interesting parallel, and worth noting that it wasn't just a matter of paid shills. R. A. Fisher (about as a big a name as one can find in mainstream statistics) was a true believer (and pipe smoker), and argued to his death that there was no proof that smoking caused cancer. Chapter 5 of Judea Pearl's "Book of Why" is a look at this.
Is McIntyre going to publish his objections?
Unfortunately, probably not. He's blogging more rarely, and quite simply, he's getting old and doesn't feel he has the energy for it. He co-authored some earlier critical papers, and I think found it a really frustrating experience. I think you may underestimate the difficulty of publishing critical papers in the field as an outsider.
Why does he refer to "Climategate" twice ... Doesn't he realize that that choice of term is politicized
I don't think he's particularly aware of which terms are going to cause which reactions in people, and has more of a weakness for snark than I prefer. Since many of the people who would be turned off by the terminology have already written him off as a "denier" (a parallel but opposite signaling term) he might feel he doesn't have much to lose by writing for the audience he has. In this case, I think he refers to it because he and his blog were intimately involved in the scandal (as in, the story came out on his site, and he seems to have corresponded privately with the source), and thus for him it's a major time marker.
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your dichotomy is false. In a world with global warming there would be no humans. It's an extinction level event and few of us seem to understand it.
> In a world with global warming there would be no humans. That statement is preposterously absurd. Global warming is a serious issue. Ludicrous statements such as the above just detract from reasonable debate.
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can find a lot of information in threads that have been discussed here: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=permafrost&sort=byPopularity&p...
Sorry, not browsing through hundreds of articles about all sorts of things being found in permafrost. Any direct links to your particular doomsday scenario? Doesn't Methane burn? Maybe another energy source for the future...
Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
As best as I can tell, the politicization of climate science is a deliberate action by those opposed to the actions which will result from accepting the validity of its conclusions. It's the same sort of propaganda effort which fought against the recognition of the link between cigarettes and lung cancer. It's the same sort of effort which tries to get creationism in its varied forms taught as part of a science educa…
Followup since it was too late to edit. McIntyre's blog post starts "The PAGES (2017) North American network consists entirely of tree rings.". The 2017 article "A global multiproxy database for temperature reconstructions of the Common Era" by the PAGES2k Consortium at https://www.nature.com/articles/sdata201788 says: > While the M08 database contains 75% more records than this collection, these records are overwhel…
I haven't read PAGES 2017 before, but I think the issue is that all the non-tree-ring proxies have been "screened out" from the North American network prior to data analysis. This is detailed (with helpful maps) in the Supplementary Information: https://media.nature.com/original/nature-assets/sdata/2017/s.... As they apply successive layers of screening for factors such as "False Discovery Rate" and correlation with "Mean Annual Temperature", everything except the tree ring proxies drop out from North America (other than a single coral series in the Yucatan).
This is essentially the basis of McIntyre's criticism of the paper. Traditional statistical technique says that you should come up with criteria for a valid proxy in advance, screen without looking at the data, and then use all the data. Once you start screening out sites after peeking at the data that is going to be used for your analysis, it's hard to know if you've biased your results towards a preordained conclusion.
You should pause at this point and ask yourself: Is this really what the paper does? How do they justify that? What do outside statisticians think of this approach? Why isn't this talked about more prominently outside of the "skeptic" blogs?
If tree rings are to be ignored, wouldn't the right question be, what does the analysis look like using only the non-tree ring data for North America?
Yes, this is a fine question, although McIntyre isn't suggesting that all tree series be ignored, only a few problematic "stripbark bristlecone pines". In prior work, the answer is that if you leave out these few trees, the emblematic "hockey stick" graph disappears. It's possible to recover the sharp upward rise without the stripbarks, but only by adding in an "upside down" Finnish lake sediment proxy (upside down in the sense that the principle components analysis inverts the usual correlation of thick and thin layers to hot and cold).
This is what section of the blogpost with the subtitle "Background: Stripbark Bristlecones and Mann’s CENSORED Directory" is about. The "spaghetti graphs" are showing the contributions from the other groups of proxies. Reading the historical links in that section will give you a tour of McIntyre's argument. His argument is not that global warming is not happening, just that much of the proof being offered is statistically very flawed.
(It's worth noting the parallels between the criticism of post-hoc screening above, and the suggestion that the bristlecone pines should be screened out. Why one, and not the other? I don't think there's a clear answer.)