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BitChute Suspended By Patreon

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Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#161

Post by woolvalley »

scrollaway wrote: post #159
shard972 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The classic example in this is porn, and now it's fringe right wing things. Consider that porn was gone after and deplatformed because of it's legal grey area in many jurisdictions. I guess that means right wing things are now up to be declared illegal now?

What? No. Porn is the lifeblood of many industries. The problem with porn is two-fold: - Some classes of advertisers don't like it (don't want their ads associated with porn). Removing porn from your platform might be necessary depending on your business model and target audience. - Websites that will commonly have minors will usually avoid the risk and outright ban porn. Still, it's not like they wouldn't take it if…

Also a history of much higher rates of fraud and chargeback risk.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#162

Post by notahacker »

apostacy wrote: post #139
notahacker wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the Gab, and... I was actually pretty pleased because I didn't think the sort of web host that would stand behind forums run by the sort of people that gloated about how many hits their association with a synagogue shooting brought them were actually potential allies in fighting fascism... Bitchute isn't the home of people posting Trump critiques. It's the home of people explaining why all critici…

Twitter enshrines the most vile antisemitism out there[1]. Right after the Pittsburgh shooting, Twitter reviewed Farrakhan's comments where he called Jews "termites", and gave him the all clear. What makes Twitter far worse than Gab is that Twitter actually took the time to have a human review it, and gave it the green light. Gab at least is not attempting to police its content. That makes Twitter much worse. This is…

I mean, I'm far from the biggest fan of Twitter's ludicrously inconsistent moderation policy, but their raison d'etre isn't signal-boosting the far right (actively from their own social media accounts as well as passively from running an unmoderated forum) and they don't gloat about how synagogue shootings affect their traffic.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#163

Post by wpietri »

daxorid wrote: post #155
wpietri wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Somebody's freedom of speech does not override a service provider freedom of association. Freedom of speech is not a right to distribution and payment.

We already lack freedom of association. In the United States, a business is not free to discriminate against certain classes of people, or on the basis of certain things. The only question is what is the precise coefficient of friction on that slippery slope. You can argue that wedding cakes should be baked for gay couples but that websites should not be hosted for nazis for reasons A, B, and C. But claiming that bus…

No freedom is perfectly available. Freedom of speech, for example, doesn't allow you to commit perjury or fraud, and it doesn't entitle you to harass someone. Freedom of association doesn't let you stalk somebody, or let felons on parole talk to one another. All rights must be balanced against other rights.

Businesses do have a very broad right of freedom to serve who they please. The one exception is when historically many businesses have used that power to participate in oppression against specific downtrodden groups. So a business can happily decline to serve US congressmen, freemasons, and people who have thrown up on their floor previously. But they can't decline to serve black people as a group.

The specific groups who have been legally recognized for this are called protected classes, and it's pretty settled law in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#164

Post by apostacy »

wpietri wrote: post #153
apostacy wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are not merely service providers. They are de-facto utilities. Just because Verizon does not like your politics, does not mean they can cut you off from their services. Same with Wells Fargo denying you a checking account (although they certainly did try in the past, if they thought you were a labor organizer). Patreon, and other payment processors (like Stripe.com) are having their arms twisted from the highes…

Verizon is a monopoly, and should be tightly regulated. Patreon is definitely not. And there's no particular reason here to think that Patreon is doing this under pressure from Visa. They were under plenty of pressure from their user base. I think there's also a fundamental difference between an organization that bans people who increase the rights of marginalized groups and one that bans people that are looking to f…

I was referring to the credit card companies as being a monopoly. They use their top-down power to impose their politics on people.

It's not just Patreon. If anyone sets up a similar service, and does business with someone that Visa does not want, they will use their monopolistic power to shut you down.

Imagine if they were doing this about a cause you disagreed with. Imagine if our financial industry was run by Trump supporters, and they were slowly squeezing their critics out financially. This is bad.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#165

Post by apostacy »

joshuamorton wrote: post #149
apostacy wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Unless we live in a 100% free market, then what you are saying is totally invalid. We actually ARE forced to use the established banks and payment processors, we have no choice. The government provides all sorts of privileges and protections to them that make it impossible to just build your own. When the government strips payment processors of all of their privileges, and…

What protections is stripe or square provided that a payment processing business I set up tomorrow isn't? The government doesn't actually give any specific payment processors special privileges. Yes, all payment processors have special privileges, but so to would the one you start tomorrow. But instead you want to force another to serve you. Why?

I was referring to financial companies higher up, like Visa and Mastercard. Banks implicitly have government protections and privileges.

But in addition to that, the barriers to entry are extreme, to the point where they are essentially monopolies. And they are using their disproportionate powers to play politics.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#166

Post by joshuamorton »

apostacy wrote: post #165
joshuamorton wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What protections is stripe or square provided that a payment processing business I set up tomorrow isn't? The government doesn't actually give any specific payment processors special privileges. Yes, all payment processors have special privileges, but so to would the one you start tomorrow. But instead you want to force another to serve you. Why?

I was referring to financial companies higher up, like Visa and Mastercard. Banks implicitly have government protections and privileges. But in addition to that, the barriers to entry are extreme, to the point where they are essentially monopolies. And they are using their disproportionate powers to play politics.

What unique protections do they have that your company wouldn't have if you started a (regulation compliant) bank tomorrow?

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#167

Post by ctyptopat08 »

CM30 wrote: post #6

This is a great example of how 'just set up your own platform' may not be the best solution to issues of censorship and what not. Because if you do, then the platforms you need for things like payment processing are also likely to ban your service for much the same reasons as before, and neutral alternatives to them are few and far between. Still, I guess this does provide a good use case for cryptocurrencies and wha…

are also likely to ban your service for much the same reasons

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#169

Post by wpietri »

apostacy wrote: post #164
wpietri wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verizon is a monopoly, and should be tightly regulated. Patreon is definitely not. And there's no particular reason here to think that Patreon is doing this under pressure from Visa. They were under plenty of pressure from their user base. I think there's also a fundamental difference between an organization that bans people who increase the rights of marginalized groups and one that bans people that are looking to f…

I was referring to the credit card companies as being a monopoly. They use their top-down power to impose their politics on people. It's not just Patreon. If anyone sets up a similar service, and does business with someone that Visa does not want, they will use their monopolistic power to shut you down. Imagine if they were doing this about a cause you disagreed with. Imagine if our financial industry was run by Trum…

As I said, there's no particular reason here to think that Patreon is doing this under pressure from Visa.
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