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BitChute Suspended By Patreon

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Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#121

Post by dragonwriter »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #36

I don't understand why BitChute can't moderate how the site itself appears to the casual viewer without sacrificing Free Speech. Free Speech does not mean they have to promote the content that is uploaded, only that they do not censor it. Allow conspiracy theorists and extremists (right or left) to post what they want.. but you don't have to feature all recent uploads on the front page. You actually don't have to fea…

> I don't understand why BitChute can't moderate how the site itself appears to the casual viewer without sacrificing Free Speech.

When you decide that a private platform deciding what is acceptable and worthy of promotion on their own platform violates free speech (which is the basis for the “free speech” challenge against YouTube that justifies BitChute), then exercising editorial control of what is given prominent placement on your own platform would be a violation.

So, yeah, they are being consistent with their own (boneheaded) concept of free speech when they are hands off with their platform recommendations.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#122

Post by cannedslime »

dang wrote: post #118
cannedslime wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It apparently also means that you are free to brand anyone you disagree with as "nazis". Just like I can freely say that any self-proclaimed "empath" is with all likelyhood just another sociopath.

It looks like you've reverted to using HN primarily for ideological battle, and worse things like race trolling. If you keep doing that, we're going to ban you, so please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I guess I crossed a line. I swear im not racetrolling, but even I know that AIPAC is pretty infuental, its in the name that its zionist, its not even a conspiracy theory really. I will refrain from anything politics related on this site in the future, even if many subjects on here are political in nature.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#123

Post by wpietri »

spookthesunset wrote: post #98
CM30 wrote: post #6

This is a great example of how 'just set up your own platform' may not be the best solution to issues of censorship and what not. Because if you do, then the platforms you need for things like payment processing are also likely to ban your service for much the same reasons as before, and neutral alternatives to them are few and far between. Still, I guess this does provide a good use case for cryptocurrencies and wha…

> censorship Except in this case it isn't censorship. Nobody can be forced to do business with BitChute if they don't want to. That is just as much of a right as anything else. BitChute is still more than able to host all the trash it wants. They will just have to find another payment provider. And they do exist. I mean, porn sites manage to figure out how to collect payment. It's expensive as hell because people con…

Exactly. Somebody's freedom of speech does not override a service provider freedom of association. Freedom of speech is not a right to distribution and payment.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#124

Post by vetrom »

simion314 wrote: post #109
jim-jim-jim wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the weird thing about free speech. Any community explicitly built upon it tends to exclusively attract those in _immediate_ need of it: conspiracy theorists and racists for the most part. There's still a (naive?) liberal side to me that thinks free expression, even of profoundly stupid ideas, might be a net good for society, but I don't want to be a part of a community that is innundated with nasty weirdos who…

>There's still a (naive?) liberal side to me that thinks free expression, even of profoundly stupid ideas, might be a net good for society, I was thinking today about the high costs of the stupid idea of anti-vaccinations, in this case children that are not at fault will die because of this ideas, should we block them or we should put billions of dollars into educating this people instead of using this money for bett…

I would argue that the billions of dollars needing to be spent on education is indicative of just how badly underfunded education is in society. You see knock-on positive and negative effects of that at basically every level of analysis and observation.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#125

Post by shard972 »

spookthesunset wrote: post #110
smsm42 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Set up your own platform" is actually "set up your own Internet". Because otherwise you'd need DNS, hosting, payment processing, CDN, certificates, etc. And given how rapidly this sphere is politicized and weaponized by people with an ax to grind, if you're doing something that somebody vocal objects to - or allow somebody that does to use your resources - or allow somebody that allows somebody, etc. - then you'd be…

> then you'd better build your own Internet. Because this one is fresh out of freedom Nobody stole your freedom. People just don't want to interact with you. That is okay though, it is their right to elect to avoid interaction. Why not just mail out a DVD of all these wacko videos to subscribers instead? Back when 9/11 conspiracies were still quasi-mainstream, somebody in our neighborhood went door to door and gave e…

> Why not just mail out a DVD of all these wacko videos to subscribers instead?

Because he wants to talk on the internet? Is that not allowed anymore because you don't like it?

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#126

Post by smsm42 »

chowells wrote: post #107
smsm42 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Set up your own platform" is actually "set up your own Internet". Because otherwise you'd need DNS, hosting, payment processing, CDN, certificates, etc. And given how rapidly this sphere is politicized and weaponized by people with an ax to grind, if you're doing something that somebody vocal objects to - or allow somebody that does to use your resources - or allow somebody that allows somebody, etc. - then you'd be…

What part of "anyone can force you to do business with them" sounds like freedom to you? Don't payment vendors and hosting platforms have freedom? Part of freedom is the responsibility to accept consequences of your actions. If you choose to say such vile things that people quit doing business with you, that's just people exercising their freedom. If you think it's unfair, you are valuing your freedom higher than eve…

> What part of "anyone can force you to do business with them" sounds like freedom to you?

The part where activist mobs can force you not to do business with people targeted by the mobs.

> Part of freedom is the responsibility to accept consequences of your actions.

That's a meaningless platitude - being personally destroyed or run out of business merely because somebody set a hate mob on you is not "consequences of your actions". This is creating climate of hate and intolerance, and that's in substantial the climate we're living in now. Some time ago, it was "if you don't like it - don't read it". Now it's "if you don't like it - destroy his life, his business, and anybody he is associated and does business with". Describing it as "accept consequences" is either extremely naive or disingenuous. I certainly do not want and will not accept such climate of permanent war as something proper.

> You're asking for the freedom of others to be removed.

No I did not. My comments are just above that, and anybody reading them can clearly see I have not asked for any freedoms to be removed. If you're going to distort my opinions, it's probably not smart to do it right next to it - too obvious.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#127

Post by shard972 »

woolvalley wrote: post #115

Even if patreon & friends are ok with it, they still need to avoid businesses that visa & friends do not want on their payment networks or will only allow them for a large cost. And by derivative what major regulators do not want on payment & banking systems or without a lot of onerous paperwork and gotchas. The classic example in this is porn, and now it's fringe right wing things.

> The classic example in this is porn, and now it's fringe right wing things.

Consider that porn was gone after and deplatformed because of it's legal grey area in many jurisdictions. I guess that means right wing things are now up to be declared illegal now?

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#128

Post by smsm42 »

spookthesunset wrote: post #110
smsm42 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Set up your own platform" is actually "set up your own Internet". Because otherwise you'd need DNS, hosting, payment processing, CDN, certificates, etc. And given how rapidly this sphere is politicized and weaponized by people with an ax to grind, if you're doing something that somebody vocal objects to - or allow somebody that does to use your resources - or allow somebody that allows somebody, etc. - then you'd be…

> then you'd better build your own Internet. Because this one is fresh out of freedom Nobody stole your freedom. People just don't want to interact with you. That is okay though, it is their right to elect to avoid interaction. Why not just mail out a DVD of all these wacko videos to subscribers instead? Back when 9/11 conspiracies were still quasi-mainstream, somebody in our neighborhood went door to door and gave e…

> Why not just mail out a DVD

So your counter-argument to my argument that Internet freedoms are being destroyed is "well, you can still mail out DVDs"? Are you sure it's the strongest counter-argument you could master? In fact, how long did you work on it before considering it's a counter-argument at all? Because for me it certainly looks like confirming my point.

> Back when 9/11 conspiracies were still quasi-mainstream

You mean, never.

> somebody in our neighborhood went door to door and gave every house a copy of Loose Change.

And this connects to my argument... how exactly? I was talking about specifically the Internet.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#129

Post by shard972 »

tw04 wrote: post #28
colordrops wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the obvious reasons?

Why don't payment processors want to be associated with someone calling for violence in the streets while peddling conspiracy theories they know to be untrue? Isn't that pretty self explanatory...?

And yet CNN or MSNBC isn't banned from any payment platforms for giving platforms to people calling for violence in the streets.

Hell, antifa have a patreon account and they are classified a terrorist organisation by the US government https://www.patreon.com/intlantifadefence

Has alex jones been classified a domestic terrorist? Is infowars a domestic terrorist organisation?

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