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BitChute Suspended By Patreon

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Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#151

Post by hannasanarion »

buboard wrote: post #74
drivingmenuts wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the obvious reasons? Really? OK, how about this: he's a polarizing nutcase who has adopted controversial and unsupportable standings on several calamitous events in the past two decades. Most people that see a mainstream business supporting him assume that business adopts those same ideas, rightly or wrongly. So, the perception of supporting Alex Jones can be incredibly damaging to the reputation of a busi…

I m sure paypal or patreon are doing business with many criminals or even terrorists who are unknown. The reason is the bad PR and negative publicity they get from these channels.

So you think that accidentally supporting criminals and terrorists is just as bad as intentionally supporting criminals and terrorists?

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#152

Post by notafraudster »

ballenf wrote: post #46
notafraudster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitChute is a YouTube replacement made for people who are "Very Worried About YouTube's Censorship". It uses WebTorrent for distribution to solve the upfront server costs of running a video service. Cute idea. You might imagine that with how endemic some people allege YouTube's censorship is, there would be a variety of interesting and censored content on BitChute. Which is why when you check the front page you get a…

Sounds like the early days of YouTube, Reddit and others. Fringe groups are always the first to seize on new platforms where they can get in front of new eyeballs and aren’t yet drowned out by quality or truthful content. I don’t think it’s fair to compare the content on a startup platform to a well-established corporate behemoth. That being said I checked out bitchute for videos on fringe chemistry demonstrations th…

I won't evaluate whether or not your claim is true, but I waited 6 years to join reddit (and when I did, I immediately blocked and unsubscribed from all the main subreddits) and never made an account on YouTube. So I feel like I should be able to criticize platforms until they reach a stage that I want to use them, right?

One presumes that people are not in any way obligated to use garbage platforms they don't like to consume content they don't want in service of some higher commitment to a platform that does not exist but might emerge later under ideal circumstances. Rather it is typically the platform operator's job to manage the platform in a way that attracts content of interest, right?

And surely interesting content emerging is not a given. Voat is 4 years old (older than reddit and YouTube were when I started using them, at a point where most of their content was not fringe stuff). The front page is: Far-right politics, libertarian politics, some weird political thing about the french, a guy complaining about YouTube censorship, MAGA memes, MAGA memes, a picture of a cute cat cuddling with Nazis, an attempt to bandwagon someone who wrote a code of conduct, a meme about how George HW Bush is in hell because he doesn't support Trump, PewDiePie, Linux is over because of code of conduct, a meme about how there are only two genders, a meme about how liberals don't believe in fumigating ant hills because they're weak, a video about how George HW Bush is a piece of shit because he likes Israel, a post rhetorically asking why anyone is sad about George HW Bush dying, a Washington Times article about "illegal immigrants", a conservative article alleging Hollywood are all pedophiles, a nazi webcomic, an article about how Democrats stole all the California house seats, a post about how it would be good if someone lynched Emmanuel Macron and how that would be enjoyable, and a meme about how right-wingers should ironically wear burqas to own liberals while they are beating liberals up, a meme of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez saying she's a stupid idiot (this is a "parody" -- not actually clear what it's a parody of, but whatever).

There are a couple I didn't copy-paste here because the titles have racial slurs in them and I couldn't figure out a way to summarize the content without repeating them. So I hope you'll provisionally yield that Voat has not yet grown beyond what you call the "startup platform" phase.

I guess it's possible that Voat is just about to turn the corner, but if I had to guess...

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#153

Post by wpietri »

apostacy wrote: post #136
wpietri wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Somebody's freedom of speech does not override a service provider freedom of association. Freedom of speech is not a right to distribution and payment.

These are not merely service providers. They are de-facto utilities. Just because Verizon does not like your politics, does not mean they can cut you off from their services. Same with Wells Fargo denying you a checking account (although they certainly did try in the past, if they thought you were a labor organizer). Patreon, and other payment processors (like Stripe.com) are having their arms twisted from the highes…

Verizon is a monopoly, and should be tightly regulated. Patreon is definitely not. And there's no particular reason here to think that Patreon is doing this under pressure from Visa. They were under plenty of pressure from their user base.

I think there's also a fundamental difference between an organization that bans people who increase the rights of marginalized groups and one that bans people that are looking to further marginalize people, so your analogy doesn't do anything for me.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#154

Post by hn19128ks8 »

jim-jim-jim wrote: post #39
notafraudster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitChute is a YouTube replacement made for people who are "Very Worried About YouTube's Censorship". It uses WebTorrent for distribution to solve the upfront server costs of running a video service. Cute idea. You might imagine that with how endemic some people allege YouTube's censorship is, there would be a variety of interesting and censored content on BitChute. Which is why when you check the front page you get a…

That's the weird thing about free speech. Any community explicitly built upon it tends to exclusively attract those in _immediate_ need of it: conspiracy theorists and racists for the most part. There's still a (naive?) liberal side to me that thinks free expression, even of profoundly stupid ideas, might be a net good for society, but I don't want to be a part of a community that is innundated with nasty weirdos who…

Demonstrably false. 4chan is built on free speech and it has a number of thriving communities discussing various hobbies.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#155

Post by daxorid »

wpietri wrote: post #123
spookthesunset wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> censorship Except in this case it isn't censorship. Nobody can be forced to do business with BitChute if they don't want to. That is just as much of a right as anything else. BitChute is still more than able to host all the trash it wants. They will just have to find another payment provider. And they do exist. I mean, porn sites manage to figure out how to collect payment. It's expensive as hell because people con…

Exactly. Somebody's freedom of speech does not override a service provider freedom of association. Freedom of speech is not a right to distribution and payment.

We already lack freedom of association. In the United States, a business is not free to discriminate against certain classes of people, or on the basis of certain things.

The only question is what is the precise coefficient of friction on that slippery slope.

You can argue that wedding cakes should be baked for gay couples but that websites should not be hosted for nazis for reasons A, B, and C. But claiming that businesses have some sort of broad right to free association is not merely specious, but completely and obviously wrong.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#156

Post by dragonwriter »

daxorid wrote: post #155
wpietri wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Somebody's freedom of speech does not override a service provider freedom of association. Freedom of speech is not a right to distribution and payment.

We already lack freedom of association. In the United States, a business is not free to discriminate against certain classes of people, or on the basis of certain things. The only question is what is the precise coefficient of friction on that slippery slope. You can argue that wedding cakes should be baked for gay couples but that websites should not be hosted for nazis for reasons A, B, and C. But claiming that bus…

Businesses do, in fact, have a broad right of free association, limited only by statutory (and possibly State constitutional) limitations that comport with the high federal Constitutional bar for such limitations.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#157

Post by csense »

notafraudster wrote: post #17
Joeboy wrote: post #10

Would anybody like to fill us in on what BitChute is, in theory and / or in practice?

BitChute is a YouTube replacement made for people who are "Very Worried About YouTube's Censorship". It uses WebTorrent for distribution to solve the upfront server costs of running a video service. Cute idea. You might imagine that with how endemic some people allege YouTube's censorship is, there would be a variety of interesting and censored content on BitChute. Which is why when you check the front page you get a…

If you build a new society where there will be no witch-hunts, you will attract a disproportionately high number of witches.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#158

Post by simion314 »

ghthor wrote: post #150
vetrom wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that the billions of dollars needing to be spent on education is indicative of just how badly underfunded education is in society. You see knock-on positive and negative effects of that at basically every level of analysis and observation.

Pretty much. If you think people believing and sharing false narratives is bad then you need to be speak out and support funding education. All other avenues are just going to be whack a mole, chasing the symptom not the cause.

Fixing education will not help people that are already out of school.

Instead of blaming the actual bad party you are trying to blame the schools and the idiots that belive the stupid thing, I am not arguing putting people in jail , I want to have a discussion of ways to keep the "expensive stupid ideas" down, it could be a solution that does not involve laws and governments.

There is a saying in Romanian I am not sure if there is an English equivalent:

"An idiot drops a stone in the lake and 10 geniuses are struggling to find a way to get it out"

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#159

Post by scrollaway »

shard972 wrote: post #127
woolvalley wrote: post #115

Even if patreon & friends are ok with it, they still need to avoid businesses that visa & friends do not want on their payment networks or will only allow them for a large cost. And by derivative what major regulators do not want on payment & banking systems or without a lot of onerous paperwork and gotchas. The classic example in this is porn, and now it's fringe right wing things.

> The classic example in this is porn, and now it's fringe right wing things. Consider that porn was gone after and deplatformed because of it's legal grey area in many jurisdictions. I guess that means right wing things are now up to be declared illegal now?

What? No. Porn is the lifeblood of many industries.

The problem with porn is two-fold:

- Some classes of advertisers don't like it (don't want their ads associated with porn). Removing porn from your platform might be necessary depending on your business model and target audience.

- Websites that will commonly have minors will usually avoid the risk and outright ban porn. Still, it's not like they wouldn't take it if they could. Steam for example has recently started approving porn games.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#160

Post by Yetanfou »

odessacubbage wrote: post #145
Yetanfou wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone really cared, they'd run the most blase service on top of such technology and actively kick off anyone slightly controversial. You'd first have to define controversial, a difficult task when dealing with the 'net: * Communism - fine in Sweden, frowned upon in former Soviet satellite states * Marihuana - forbidden in Sweden, allowed in Canada and parts of the US, tolerated in the Netherlands * Women in re…

maybe a good compromise would be to base frontpage content on regional broadcast standards as that seems to be a pretty reliable measure for what is considered acceptable and then simply relegate the other content within it's own 'after dark' category, available to registered users. this is essentially how we handled things back in the era of video stores and it still seems applicable imo; keep the content, just brin…

This just moves the problem, it does not get rid of it. You'd still have to draw a line somewhere or you'd be just as lambasted - if not more so - by the ravenous hordes of Twitter etc: "odessacubbage.video hides nazis / commies / porn / jihadis / furries / whathavenots behind a smokescreen, get him!". They'll be calling your advertisers, scream murder at your registrar, boycott your hosting company, petition the government to do an inquiry and do all those other things the hordes do to quiet a dissenting voice. Those Twitter hordes did not exist in the days of video stores...
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