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I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

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Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#21

Post by dbsmith83 »

creato wrote: post #11
darawk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they won't. And that has real consequences for actual people. Google has the option to improve those people's lives by going there, even if it means bowing to the demands of Chinese censors. Nothing is gained by staying out. China isn't going to magically change its opinion on censorship because Google won't enter their market. The objections of the Google employees are shortsighted and naive.

Funny, I'd say it is your objections that are shortsighted and naive: caving to the demands of an authoritarian dictatorship steadily growing in influence.

@darawk you can not think of any negative consequences? Are you that naive?

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#22

Post by andrewflnr »

No matter whether you agree with them or not, asking someone to sear their conscience is one of if not the most corrosive things you can do to them and to humanity at large. The author probably didn't mean it quite that way, but that's what this post is asking of googlers.

Don't do that.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#23

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

ausjke wrote: post #6

You must not use "Must", just let DragonFly die, use true google or stick with Baidu, in the meantime feel grateful that github.com is still accessible.

It's bad/sad that there are over a billion people living under such censorship that github.com still being accessible is a truly worthy accomplishment.

I think it's a real concern that Github might start censoring because China is able to exert pressure on Microsoft, just look at bing.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#25

Post by yourbandsucks »

AnaniasAnanas wrote: post #19
darawk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they won't. And that has real consequences for actual people. Google has the option to improve those people's lives by going there, even if it means bowing to the demands of Chinese censors. Nothing is gained by staying out. China isn't going to magically change its opinion on censorship because Google won't enter their market. The objections of the Google employees are shortsighted and naive.

> Nothing is gained by staying out If a lot of companies decided to refuse to follow China's oppressive methods (and thus making life slightly worse for some of the people of china) it might slightly push the residents of china towards revolting and gaining more freedom. This is all theoretical of course, I doubt that anything like that could happen in real life.

Revolution would kill tens of millions, minimum.

Compared to that, continuing to enjoy the greatest rise in living standards in human history doesn't look half bad.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#26

Post by darawk »

yellowapple wrote: post #16
darawk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they won't. And that has real consequences for actual people. Google has the option to improve those people's lives by going there, even if it means bowing to the demands of Chinese censors. Nothing is gained by staying out. China isn't going to magically change its opinion on censorship because Google won't enter their market. The objections of the Google employees are shortsighted and naive.

Nothing is gained by not staying out (aside from money in Google's pockets, of course). I'm not sure how Google's expected to "improve those people's lives" while still being subject to China's rules around censorship and surveillance.

> I'm not sure how Google's expected to "improve those people's lives"

Did you read the post in the OP?

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#27

Post by ForrestN »

The problem with this logic is that it treats the malevolent dictatorship as a given. If you believe that there will be concentration camps, dissident crackdowns, and absolute censorship in China forever, this is a reasonable position.

If you believe there is any hope for the Chinese people, foreign entities should focus on aiding the regime and the political status quo as little as possible, hypothetical ad business improvements or not.

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#28

Post by judge2020 »

ausjke wrote: post #6

You must not use "Must", just let DragonFly die, use true google or stick with Baidu, in the meantime feel grateful that github.com is still accessible.

Github.com has and likely will continue to be blocked in China whenever they need to censor certain projects or discussion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_GitHub#China

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#29

Post by [deleted] »

codemac wrote: post #10

If we counted the number of people the PRC has killed by finding them through their "great" firewall, does the OP think that number is less than bad baidu medical ads? I don't understand is the false equivalency between baidu's advertising and PRC's notorious human rights violations. This post doesn't address any of the concerns brought up by the original letter they decry?

[deleted]

Re: I’m Chinese, Google’s DragonFly Must Go On

#30

Post by AlexandrB »

darawk wrote: post #14
creato wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I'd say it is your objections that are shortsighted and naive: caving to the demands of an authoritarian dictatorship steadily growing in influence.

Ok. Play your tape all the way through. What are the negative consequences of doing so? The positive consequences of entering the Chinese market are obvious.

The negative consequences are that Google are the best at cataloguing and searching information. This expertise can now be leveraged by the Chinese government to search for dissidents.

Edit: Do you honestly think that once the Chinese government has some leverage over Google (because they now make a portion of their revenue from the Chinese market) they wouldn't use that to get additional concessions?

As an example, Chinese citizens can still access Google if they can connect through an outside VPN. Google may be able to identify such users through cookies, reCaptcha or another Google tracking technology. What if China asked Google to censor results for Chinese users using VPNs too?

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