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Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

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Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#81

Post by pathseeker »

someone7x wrote: post #65
xadhominemx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's insecure about non-whites having the ability to vote Actually they are, and go so far as to pass laws specifically to suppress non-white votes https://twitter.com/haroldpollack/status/1051657219899617280

> They were making the argument and affirming that they were discriminating based on political affiliation, in an attempt to show they were not discriminating based on race. It was a conscious legal strategy to admit this. Wow. Can't be racial prejudice if its already political prejudice. Reminds me of the court scene in New Jack City where the Wesley Snipes confesses to being a foot soldier and therefore he can't be…

>Wow. Can't be racial prejudice if its already political prejudice.

It can, but it's not in many cases. I also know lots of conservatives who are not the strawman racists people on the left like to attack. They really only care that people don't vote in left-wing people.

Keep in mind that suppressing the Democrat vote will dis-proportionally affect black people (as well as poor people, etc), but that doesn't mean the people trying to do it are prejudiced against black people. They are just prejudiced against Democrats.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#82

Post by FakeComments »

jhayward wrote: post #56
FakeComments wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, everyone's quality of life has improved across the board but relative poverty is the important metric. I completely disagree — the total standard of living is the only one that matters. If you’re better off than you used to be, you’ll keep buying into society and things will keep getting better. I think there’s four factors: 1. It’s hard to view your status in absolute instead of relative terms, because it re…

> extort wealth until they’re forced back into absolute poverty — which there are signs of happening. ~~It is hardly sufficient to simply say that this outrageous claim requires enormous proof. Please, show me the billionaires who have been forced in to poverty by social program. Please.~~ Edit: I was misreading the above in exactly the wrong direction, wealth-wise. There is indeed quite a bit of evidence that the ec…

I think I was unclear — I meant people who are relatively poor, but wealthier in absolute terms being extorted by the relatively extremely wealthy until they’re also poor in absolute terms.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#83

Post by pathseeker »

jhayward wrote: post #44
justaman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wanted to point out that racism like that is on its last leg. I used to live in a rural, very conservative, upper class area. While they do watch fox news, they are not racist. Its close minded to call fox news racist or cnn socialist.

"I'm not saying they're racist, I'm just saying that racists like them a lot" [1] (paraphrased from Gillum) [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/11/...

Peanut butter isn't racist, I'm just saying that racists like it a lot.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#84

Post by chrissam »

post_break wrote: post #62

People cannot buy a phone outright. It's that bad. We're literally financing a $500-1000 device because they can't take the hit up front. Now I'm sure most people here could swing a phone tomorrow if they needed to say theirs was stolen, but you gotta think about how many people just can't. How about tires, there are places to rent tires. Financing a car? Common. 8 payments to put two front tires on your car? Seems i…

It seems like a bad decision to pay $500-1000 for a smartphone if you can't pay upfront.

My sense is that people push their financial situation to the limit in order to get more stuff faster. You might say "if they had more money it wouldn't be an issue" but my feeling is that, for most of these people, if they had 20% more money, they'd just find the new limit. I don't necessarily fault this behavior, if the things you're buying make you happy then maybe it's perfectly rational.

But if that's true, it seems nonsensical to define poverty as "precariousness of one's finacial situation". The only definition of poverty that makes sense to me is the material one.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#85

Post by yammajr »

coryrc wrote: post #67
post_break wrote: post #62

People cannot buy a phone outright. It's that bad. We're literally financing a $500-1000 device because they can't take the hit up front. Now I'm sure most people here could swing a phone tomorrow if they needed to say theirs was stolen, but you gotta think about how many people just can't. How about tires, there are places to rent tires. Financing a car? Common. 8 payments to put two front tires on your car? Seems i…

A car isn't a necessity. A $500-$1000 phone is not a necessity. These are bad choices people make. Why they make those choices is subject to many theories, but their situation is entirely within their power (but maybe not knowledge) to fix.

> A car isn't a necessity

If you happen to live in a city. If you live outside a big metro area, at least in the US, a car absolutely is a necessity.

Where I live, there are no buses, no cabs, no uber, nothing. I don't have children or need to haul large loads frequently, so I might be able to make it work, but it would be a HUGE quality of life hit, necessitating taking a different job nearer me which almost certainly wouldn't pay as well as what I make now, moving closer to work - if I can find anything that's nearby and reasonably priced - and/or spending large amounts of time walking/biking. If I did have children or other dependents, there's just no real way I could expect to not have a car.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#86

Post by AnimalMuppet »

post_break wrote: post #62

People cannot buy a phone outright. It's that bad. We're literally financing a $500-1000 device because they can't take the hit up front. Now I'm sure most people here could swing a phone tomorrow if they needed to say theirs was stolen, but you gotta think about how many people just can't. How about tires, there are places to rent tires. Financing a car? Common. 8 payments to put two front tires on your car? Seems i…

If they charged you $500 up front for a phone, it would be obvious how much it's not a necessity, and they would sell many fewer phones. They would therefore sell service to many fewer phones. They don't want that. So they follow the make-your-compliment-cheap strategy (if you're selling razor blades, make the handle really inexpensive).

Edit: Thanks for the downvote, stranger. Care to explain?

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#87

Post by antidesitter »

ggm wrote: post #49
soared wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short, (gov) assistance does __not__ decrease poverty Source? I feel as though the equal housing act and low-income housing decrease this definition of poverty by making housing secure.

I think it demands all government tax spend in ways to alleviate poverty be viewed as an externality which would not be needed in a higher income workforce. So it has qualities of tax hating but in a context of better social equity in pay. Like you, I think rent controls and low income rent support are supporting better lives for working poor, and do far more than paint over cracks, but the poverty trap is real: peop…

> I think rent controls... are supporting better lives for working poor

Rent controls make their situation worse, not better. [1][2][3][4][5]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/12/business/economy/rent-con...

[2] https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2015/08/30/...

[3] https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/RentControl.html

[4] https://fee.org/articles/rent-control-advocates-need-a-lesso...

[5] https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-18/yup-re...

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#88

Post by [deleted] »

kartan wrote: post #6

> Luckily, there is just such a concept: It’s called material security. This is really important. There are people that are one paycheck away from not being able to afford rent and basic necessities. I have lost my job in the past. I was calm and just enjoyed the time while I was looking for a new job. I have money saved. For a lot of people that will have been an extremely stressful situation. That kind of stress is…

[deleted]

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#89

Post by esotericn »

post_break wrote: post #62

People cannot buy a phone outright. It's that bad. We're literally financing a $500-1000 device because they can't take the hit up front. Now I'm sure most people here could swing a phone tomorrow if they needed to say theirs was stolen, but you gotta think about how many people just can't. How about tires, there are places to rent tires. Financing a car? Common. 8 payments to put two front tires on your car? Seems i…

Well, sure, but that's a "people cannot buy a phone outright because people cannot buy a phone outright" problem.

If you can't afford a 1000 dollar phone, then taking a loan out to buy one is completely illogical. It's a depreciating asset with diminishing returns - a 200 dollar phone does basically all the same things.

The issue is that loans have a psychological effect on some individuals which makes them more like to spend more than they would otherwise. They end up in a sort of situation where wealth doesn't exist at all and all future income is accounted for already.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#90

Post by gammateam »

umvi wrote: post #80
post_break wrote: post #62

People cannot buy a phone outright. It's that bad. We're literally financing a $500-1000 device because they can't take the hit up front. Now I'm sure most people here could swing a phone tomorrow if they needed to say theirs was stolen, but you gotta think about how many people just can't. How about tires, there are places to rent tires. Financing a car? Common. 8 payments to put two front tires on your car? Seems i…

I'm a well off software developer. I've been using a $50 Nokia Lumia 520 for the past 3 years or so. When this one dies I'll likely "splurge" and buy a Nokia 2 ($100). That our I'll buy a Blu phone ($50). I would consider my neighbors poor. They have state-subsidized rent, for example. They use food stamps. They also smoke a pack a day each. All they need to do to buy a new phone is not smoke for 5 days. Not that it…

Being able to send the same emojis to communicate effectively and having blue bubbles is a lot more valuable than you might think

If you are part of any professional membership or subscription to get you through life, then there are some similarities

The point being that maybe they overspend on conspicuous consumption, using an iphone alone isnt an indicator in isolation. Who knows where the price limit is, but low interest low velocity on phone payments with easy upgrades makes this practical

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